Bolt on necks

Craig Bumgarner

[email protected] wrote:

..... Upon closer inspection I found the neck to be a bolt on neck (fine for the nomads but not on a $4200 guitar).

Your reaction is not uncommon, but please consider that bolt on necks are nothing new or inherently inferior. They have been used off and on forever. I recently saw pictures of a beautiful 19th century Viennese guitar with an elegant external lock, key and screw arrangement for securing the neck. After decades in the wilderness, bolting vs. a glued joint is again gaining popularity in the larger acoustic guitar world and not just for cheap guitars. High end, hand built acoustic guitars, classical and steel string, can be found with bolt on necks and the reason is they are a win-win for both the builder and the buyer. Simple, strong and versatile. Of these, the versatility is what is attracting high end builders and buyers of their guitars. A fully bolt on neck makes accurate set up during building easier and the neck can be repeatedly removed or installed in less than 10 minutes with no damage what-so-ever. This allows for adjustments during building and later in life that might otherwise be avoided or worked around in a less than optimal fashion.

Some builders have developed bolt on necks that allow neck angle to be adjusted so that the optimum string break angle can be established and the neck and fingerboard adjusted to the desired action under the strings. Your action is too low and you don't want to shim your bridge? Just lower (rotate actually) the neck relative to the strings. Fifteen minutes with an allen wrench and its done, by the owner. Nothing is visible on the outside of the guitar, the joint looks the same as might have 50 years ago.

You mentioned the Dupont Nomade and its bolt on neck. This uses a system similar to an electric solid body guitar, exposed screws and no neck heel. Obviously it does look different and whether you like the look or not, it should not be compared to the systems above. The bolt on systems above, whether they are simple bolt on affairs or the highly adjustable configurations, are generally not noticeable externally and aesthetically pleasing. The bolts inside the body can be completely hidden if deemed necessary.

I've built two guitars with fully bolt on necks recently and can attest to the advantages mentioned above. One disadvantage is the potential for added weight. The added weight can be significant unless the matter is given close attention. My first one added 140 grams over a typical dovetail joint. My second trimmed about half that off, and I'm working a way to eliminate any weight gain at all. There is just nothing like the look on the face of a guitar player when you hand him a 3.3 pound guitar. It's like beer in a plastic mug 8)

A bolt up system can be a challenge with a small oval hole, but can be done. Even a slightly larger hole makes it relatively easy, D holes are a breeze. I'd be glad to argue before the court someday that the small oval hole is too small anyway. :P

Another disadvantage might be a prejudice against changes to a hallowed design. Innovations like bolt on necks come slow to Selmer style guitars and can result in witches burning at stakes if one is not careful. We all cherish the 60-75 year old originals and many builders and buyers strive for copies as close to the originals as possible. If that is what one wants, well, there are builders who can and will do it. I dare say however, as the GJ style matures, the music, the players and the instruments will branch out and all three will accept innovations that prove worthy. Mario Maccafarri and Django were pretty radical in their day too.

All that being said, I would be interested in how forum members feel about owning a guitar with a bolt on neck.

CB

Craig Bumgarner

Oh, and once you get bolt on necks under your belt, maybe we can talk about bolt-on "twisted" necks like this Eric Sahlin classical. :twisted: Gives me vertigo looking at it, but reportedly easier to play at the lower frets. Who will be the first to use on a manouche guitar?

EmmettRay

Hi Craig,

I've never played a GJ guitar with a bolt on neck but the idea sounds very strange to me, when I hear about an acoustic with a bolt on it makes me think of Taylor guitars (yuck!) I'd be willing to check one out though...

Since you mentioned about innovations to the Selmer design I'd like to bring up one that I haven't seen yet but am DYING to... ON BOARD electronics! It can be an absolute nightmare amplifying these guitars due to their quirky overtones and feedback problems, I've spent $$$$ on all kinds of pick-ups, amps, DI pedals, pre-amps, etc to cover all kinds of gig situations. I'd love to see a luthier that puts some good designing into amplifying their guitars as they do in building. Is that too much to ask?

In my mission to spread Gypsy Jazz here in the Hawaiian islands I've checked out a few of the many open mic nights all around town in many different bars to expose people to some of Djangos's music with mixed results. It is pretty much impossible to just plug in and play and sound great like all these other players do with their cheap "normal" acoustics that have on board EQ, preamps, etc... It makes me jealous! It's 2012, surely somebody must be building some by now. I guess for most people it's too non-traditional, just like the bolt on neck. That's BS.


Emmett

[email protected]

Hi Craig, Thanks for the informative history lesson. I personally have no guitar building experience so am ignorant to comment...I have owned a couple of Godins with bolt on necks and they were very reliable guitars though def a bit heavier. I thought the nomads sound great for 2k though.
Best, Roch

Hey Emmett...We met briefly last year at Django in June...I enjoyed your playing and look forward to connecting again....Are you going this year?

EmmettRay

Hi Roch,

I will definitely be at DIJ, it's my favorite of all the Djangofests, each year just gets better and better. Looking forward to jammin with you again. Oh, cool YouTube vids BTW, loved your playing/singing man!

Em

[email protected]

Yea!! I learned a bunch watching your and a couple of other guys right hand techniques last year..I had right hand envy! I may send you a pm about samois as I remember you mentioning that you frequent the festival.

MichaelHorowitz

EmmettRay wrote:

It is pretty much impossible to just plug in and play and sound great like all these other players do with their cheap "normal" acoustics that have on board EQ, preamps, etc... It makes me jealous! It's 2012, surely somebody must be building some by now. I guess for most people it's too non-traditional, just like the bolt on neck. That's BS.

Hi Emmet,

There are several options w/built in electronics:

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/gui ... g-455.html

http://www.acoustic-guitars.com/guitare ... ciales.php

http://aldguitaremanouche.com/model/es_sap.php

And this used Dell Arte I have right now:

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/gui ... ple-2.html

Although, for most people these solutions are not necessary. The vast majority of pros use either the bigtone or the Stimer (or some other magnetic pickup), both of which are pretty much plug and play. Neither is a perfect acoustic sound, but very practical. But that's also true of the under the saddle type pickups that most flatops have.

Craig Bumgarner

EmmettRay wrote:

I've never played a GJ guitar with a bolt on neck but the idea sounds very strange to me, when I hear about an acoustic with a bolt on it makes me think of Taylor guitars (yuck!) I'd be willing to check one out though...

I see you are coming out for Django in June, terrific, see you there! I'll probably have a guitar with a bolt on neck you can try. I'm enthusiastic about the idea and from my experience to date, I don't think you will notice any functional or tonal difference, but I certainly don't want to introduce a "yuck" factor into what I build, so your comments are interesting to me.

It's 2012, surely somebody must be building some [good on board electronics for GJ guitars] by now. I guess for most people it's too non-traditional, just like the bolt on neck. That's BS.

Emmett

I KNOW what you mean! I've said it more than once: How is it we have been amplifying guitars for over 50 years and we STILL are struggling with this? I think at least part of the problem is the heavy picking aspect, it just drives most pickups that would otherwise sound good crazy. I have put a variety of pickups, including high end active piezo pickups with pre-amps on gypsy guitars and they sound great finger picking or with a thin pick, but dig in with a stiff 2.5mm Wegen, they all sounded pretty rude.

The forum here is full of ideas, reports and discussion of the on-going efforts to amplify well, but there seems to be no one plug and play solution, that sounds good, at least. To date, my most reliable method is a Shure SM57 floor mic. It works almost everywhere. I use an AT mic when floorspace gets tight. With a good pre-amp with EQ and cut filters, one can go a long way with a mic these day. A loud guitar and playing it loud helps as someone recently said here. On the rare occasion I need more volume, I use a Peche. The new Ischell contact mic that Michael and Ben have been talking about sounds interesting. Maybe we can talk them into bringing one to DiJ to check out.

But I gather you are thinking of an on-board system straight from the builder. I got nothin' for that at this point.

Thanks for your comments, see you in June.