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What other songs have the last section like this?

T1mothyT1mothy ✭✭ Furch petite bouche
edited May 2016 in Gypsy Jazz 101 Posts: 79
Im thinking the kind that starts on the major IV as in Django s tiger, All of me. Also it looks and feels rather similar as the last section in It had to be you. The chords go so fast, there s no way to outline every single one of them. How does one tackle this?
Im asking because Im working on It had to be you at the moment and would like to know what others songs I could listen to in order to get some ideas :-)

Have a good one,
Tim

Comments

  • adrianadrian AmsterdamVirtuoso
    Posts: 497
    Some people call this the "Christophe" progression (4, 4#dim, 1, 6, 2, 5, 1).

    For tackling this progression: personally I like to find the notes that change, and focus on those. For example, in the key of C, focus on the notes F, Gb, G, A over the first four chords.
  • MatteoMatteo Sweden✭✭✭✭ JWC Modele Jazz, Lottonen "Selmer-Maccaferri"
    edited May 2016 Posts: 387
    That's strange. As far as I know, the name Cristoph comes from the beginning of the tune Christopher Columbus (I I7 IV IVm). (I hope I got the chords right, I haven't got a guitar within reach now). Anyway, I suspect that "some people" have got this wrong.
    Wim Glenn
  • It is pretty common. But that #IV dim can also be a iv. All of Me is a good example, depending on who you are playing with.
  • MatteoMatteo Sweden✭✭✭✭ JWC Modele Jazz, Lottonen "Selmer-Maccaferri"
    edited May 2016 Posts: 387
    Here are a few variations of the Christophe from Philippe Badouin's "Jazz mode d'emploi" (Volume 1): C C7 F Fm or C C7 F F#° or C C7 F Ab7.

    The same book also has one whole page of exempels of tunes whith the chord sequence (with small variations) T1mothy asked about. Here it's called the "After You've Gone type".

    So, according to monsieur Badouin you find the basic sequence (F Fm C A7 D7 G7 C C) in the beginning of After You've Gone and a few more songs, and in the end of All of Me, But Not for Me, Chinatown My Chinatown, Don't Worry About Me, I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter, It's a Sin to Tell a Lie, I've Got You Under My Skin, I Won't Dance, On a Slowboat to China and Who's Sorry Now. Just to name a few exemples in the book.

    And with an F#° as second chord (instead of Fm) you've got Bourbon Street Parade, I Can't Give You Anything but Love, In a Mellow Tone, My Melancholy Baby, Tickle Toe and a number of other songs.

    With Dm7 Fm as the two first chords you've got Fly Me to the Moon, The Good Life, Pennies from Heaven etc.

    With other small transformations this chord sequence is also found in tunes like All the Things You Are, Please Be Kind, Rose Room, Stardust and It Had To Be You.

    So it's everywhere. And we're back where we started, with It Had To Be You.
    Buco
  • Amir_GAmir_G New
    edited May 2016 Posts: 11
    I personally believe that transcribing is the best way to go.
    Start by transcribing 3-5 examples (not entire solos, only the IV IV#dim I VI ii V I parts). Then try playing the examples you've just transcribed in a few different keys.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
    One thing that's very important is to not assume "oh it's just that chord progression". A lot of these songs have very subtle variations that deviate from what one would usually expect... For me the best way to learn songs has always been to look up the earliest recordings, and then to figure out which harmonies to add/keep/discard.

    For instance, the original version of Coquette is only I V I... no II chord. Even Django didn't put a II chord in his version, that came later.

    But with regards to the actual topic, It Had To Be You is a good example of a song that isn't the obvious IV IVm etc...

    In G, it actually goes: C Cm G 2 beats B7 2 beats Em A7 D7, etc...

    Many GJ musicians (even some really freakin good ones), just assume it 's C C#Dim7 (could work) G E7 which would form an E7#9, which technically could work, but for a song like It Had to be You, it's kinda pushing it...

  • The melody generally leads the way. Sometimes its hard to get down to basics as so many reharmonizations or just plain weird harmonizations have happened. I agree with Dennis in that if one can find an original vocal version or instrumental if its not a vocal gives the best place to start from.
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,129
    Good point Stuart, thanks! Yeah #Idim is like #VIdim which acts like it is going to the II chord (is that what you are talking about?)
  • its actually the same notes in different order LOL
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
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