Wood choices and finishes

periclimenes

Can anyone take a stab at characterizing the differences in the types woods commonly seen on GJ guitars:

Top: European Spruce, Engelmann Spruce, Sitka, Red Spruce

Back/Sides: Indian Rosewood, Brazillian Rosewood, Mahogany

Neck: Walnut, Mahogany

Are some of these aesthetic choices (i.e. the neck), or do they all impact the overall sound?

Also, which types of finishes are desirable (I guess as far as allowing the guitar to open up)? I have only owned guitars with thick spray-on polyurethane finishes. What do high-end builders use (French Polish?), and how does that affect the sound?

I know someone could probably write a whole treatise on the few questions I have asked, but I'm at a very rudimentary level here, so even the most basic info helps!

Thanks!

Jazzaferri

Individual woods do have individual characteristics.

Cedar tops tend to sound pretty much as they will sound whereas spruce tops tend to get better with a year or two of playing (not sitting in a case or on a wall or a stand but playing)

Rosewoods tend to reflect sound whereas walnut tends to absorb it.

Having said all that a guitar is not the sum of it's wood. Lutherie is an art form and the end product reflects the intent and the skill of the builder. So one could say perhaps if two guitars were absolutely identical except that one had say mahogany back and sides versus a rosewood back and sides the rosewood guitar should be a little brighter and punchier (poor words but our language doesn't really have good words to describe these differences).

As no two pieces of wood are absolutely identical and no two guitars are absolutely identical the only true test is to play, listen and compare. If you haven't yet developed the ears to do that get help. They will come with time and practice. Consider also that one man's sound will be different than another. I am constantly amazed by the fact that when I play my buddies guitar it still sounds like my playing. I am not alone in this. WE eaach have our style, attack, pick angle etc etc.

Mehran s

- Indian Rosewood:produce the bright <bell> sound,that it is suitable for nylon string ac guitar.
- Brazillian Rosewood:produce the Dark sound,that it is great for GJ guitar
- Mahogany:produce the dead,dry & without flavor sound to my ear.

BluesBop Harry

This link from shelley Park's site describes a few expected characteristics of sound from different woods:
http://www.parkguitars.com/standard-materials/
http://www.parkguitars.com/sound-characteristics/
I hope Bob Holo jumps in and gives us one of his usual ultra-informative essays, I love reading those!

Jazzaferri

I think I am more in Bob Benedetto's camp.

Some time after he had built his famous flatsawn pine archtop (complete with knots) that was a really sweet sounding instrument he commented in a lutherie master class......."Maybe there is no such thing as bad tonewood." .............. I can't remember if he reflected that "maybe there are only bad luthiers" or if that was kinda obvious but left unsaid. :shock:

IMO if a luthier uses a wood that say has less inherent bass response (if indeed there is actually such a thing) a good luthier would make up for that with subtle changes in design, thicknesses etc. IMO in an individually crafter guitar it all comes down to the luthier. Stradivarius made violins out of all sorts of less than perfect woods and they still sounded great.

Having had lots of discussions with Michael Dunn about woods and construction methods I think he's somewhat of the same opinion.

If guitars are made in batch production or mass production then, as these sorts of changes are not really feasible, wood choice may become more important to get the sound one wants.

Anyone who has tried out a number of batch produced hand built guitars of the same wood will know exactly what I am saying. Not all supposedly identical guitars sound the same in the same hands. 8)

bjewell

" Indian Rosewood:produce the bright <bell> sound,that it is suitable for nylon string ac guitar.
- Brazillian Rosewood:produce the Dark sound,that it is great for GJ guitar
- Mahogany:produce the dead,dry & without flavor sound to my ear..."

I couldn't disagree more. It is Brazilian that has the pop to it and it is Indian tends to be dark and a bit tubby. Brazilian rosewood adds anywhere from a thousand to $20K to the cost of an acoustic guitar. ($20K you say are you nuts??? Check out the price of a Martin D-28 Authentic compared to the more humble D-18 Authentic)

That's just a basic fact and the reason Brazilian is rare (it's been cut down to almost nothing) and so very expensive. Indian is looked down upon as the least satisfying of the rosewoods. Madagascar is much better. Then there's all of those out -in-the-jungle varieties that have appeared in recent years as people desperately try to get away from that muddy Indian stuff.

Mahogany has a beautiful tone, powerful but crystal clear. I am of course talking about Honduras mahogany and not the African quasi stuff. A good mahogany guitar will be very loud with fat trebles and accurate tone reproduction. All of this goes out the winder if you are talking about laminates...

periclimenes

I just saw that Brazilian rosewood is on the CITES list: http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html

That would make it pretty tough (money aside) for me to order a new guitar with that wood...

adrian

It's not gypsy-jazz-focused, but here's an informative site with fingerstyle guitarist Laurence Juber comparing bigleaf mahogany, Indian rosewood, Brazilian rosewood and Madagascar rosewood. He plays the same musical piece on each type of guitar, to make it easier for people to tell the difference in sound.

http://www.musicwood.org/juber/index.htm

Adrian