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neck/bridge alignment

had this cigano gj-15 for a while now, but only 'getting round' to a set up now- saying that it didn't feel like it needed one, until i realised the bridge was actually tilted from tuning up the slack strings.

so that's fixed easy, and everything else is fine bar one thing. the bridge isn't aligned with the neck, it seems.
the gap on the low E side to the edge of the fretboard is smaller than the high side by too much. as far as the last extension frets are only acessed by the E, and not the B as well like i understand.

The guitar came with the moustache ends installed (doesn't that defeat the point of them if a set up hasn't been done!) so how can i remove and reinstall them so i can put the bridge where its supposed to be?
I hope its the bridge- can i check for a neck problem somehow?

ps. on the set-up topic, do we treat the zero-fret like a nut, because there's a lot less of a gap than i would allow on a nut.
the fingerboard extension drops drastically, but i understand this is usually the case on cheaper models. is this the case?? its not too much of a problem; it will probably train my fingers for cello playing.

Comments

  • crookedpinkycrookedpinky Glasgow✭✭✭✭ Alex Bishop D Hole, Altamira M & JWC D hole
    Posts: 921
    until i realised the bridge was actually tilted from tuning up the slack strings. so that's fixed easy, and everything else is fine bar one thing. Just out of curiosity how did you fix this problem - it suggests that the bridge feet were not flat across the top


    the bridge isn't aligned with the neck, it seems. the gap on the low E side to the edge of the fretboard is smaller than the high side by too much. as far as the last extension frets are only acessed by the E, and not the B as well like i understand.
    What do you mean by too much ? is it just that there is significant difference in the gap - "the action" - under the top and bottom strings or are you experiencing string buzz as well

    The guitar came with the moustache ends installed (doesn't that defeat the point of them if a set up hasn't been done!) so how can i remove and reinstall them so i can put the bridge where its supposed to be?
    ]Most guitars I have seen come with the Moustache ends attached and it's not an issue as they don't affect the mid section placement. As long as they are not too out of alignment it shouldn't be a problem. Roughly speaking their mid point should be placed at the same distance from the 12th fret as the the 12th fret is from the zero fret

    I hope its the bridge- can i check for a neck problem somehow?

    ps. on the set-up topic, do we treat the zero-fret like a nut, because there's a lot less of a gap than i would allow on a nut.
    What do you mean by less of a gap ? Do you mean the gap between the string and fingerboard ? If so I wouldn't touch this as in this case the zero fret is acting as a critical point in setting intonation and action. Gypsy guitar necks are different from normal guitar necks and the nut needs a greater height because of a) the lack of a zero fret and b) the neck angles etc are very different]
    the fingerboard extension drops drastically, but i understand this is usually the case on cheaper models. is this the case??
    I've seen them drop off on high end instruments as well, so don't think the Cigano is less of an instrument for that. They are very good guitars for the money.its not too much of a problem;
    always learning
  • jorrijorri ✭✭
    Posts: 10
    1. I fixed this by just pulling/tilting the bridge back a little so there is no angle or gap. I'm used to doing this on a cello.
    The guitar sounded great before, but since doing this it sounds better, so i'd like to get everything straight whether i'm noticing a problem or not- doing this opened up so much lower register sound!

    2. I think you've misunderstood or perhaps i didn't explain well. It's not the action, its the alignment- if i were to take a ruler, placed flat on the fretboard at the high end, and measure from the centre of the string to the edge of the fretboard, the difference between the high and low E strings is more than a mm.
    they don't look straight or centred either.

    http://www.djangoism.co.uk/wp-content/u ... inside.jpg
    this might explain more- this isn't my guitar, its one that i assume is set up properly.
    see the second extension fret which is the last fret for the B-string, my B- string actually does not lie over this fret- it lies to the side of it.

    I think you gone with between neck to bridge alignment; i usually hear this called intonation and what i mean is lateral alignment of the bridge- from side to side.

    I only really need to move the moustache bridge ends, but don't want to ruin the guitar. i hope they are not glued down too hard.

    thanks-that did answer the zero-fret and other extension question anyway.
  • crookedpinkycrookedpinky Glasgow✭✭✭✭ Alex Bishop D Hole, Altamira M & JWC D hole
    Posts: 921
    You should search this forum site - there was a post or two about fitting bridges correctly and as you've already found out it's all about getting the best contact between the feet and the top - like a Cello etc.

    If you want to shift the moustache ends your need to gently heat the moustache pieces. I usually heat a wallpaper scraper and then hold that against the moustache pieces - making sure not to touch the guitar top. The heat transfers through the wood and loosens the glue and you can then start to gently rock them free - gently prising with a cool scraper if need be.

    I see what you mean about the lateral string alignement - it's not so much and issue with oval holes which have no extension. On almost all my guitars I end up raising the bridge by a milimetre or two and then renotch the bridge so there's a better spread. SOme guitars have come with no bridge notching and otehr where the notches are way too close the edges and the strings are easily pulled off when playing so I like/usually need to adjust the spacing myself.

    Hope that helps.
    Alan
    always learning
  • Jeff MooreJeff Moore Minneapolis✭✭✭✭ Lebreton 2
    Posts: 476
    Jorri, I'm just putting this out as a possibility. Everyone else, I know its not "correct".

    I've had the same issue. to much room on the low or high string to the edge of fretboard.
    On a non expensive guitar there's a quick fix. Just sand a little of the length off one end of the bridge. In your case 1mm. You might think the moustache ends are necessary to keep the bridge from shifting. Not so, unless the break angle over the bridge is quite small such that there isn't much down pressure clamping the bridge to the top.
    Of course this leaves a gap, but you can now put the bridge where it should be at no cost.
    From my experience, and I've bought a lot of cheap and a few expensive guitars, this is not uncommon.

    I bought a fixed bridge SelMac classical, and I spent $500 dollars having the bridge moved 1/4 inch back to get it intoned. Its a beautiful thing made of the best stuff but the luthier glued the bridge "way the hell out of whack."
    "We need a radical redistribution of wealth and power" MLK
  • javierjavier New
    Posts: 10
    Jeff Moore wrote:
    Jorri, I'm just putting this out as a possibility. Everyone else, I know its not "correct".

    I've had the same issue. to much room on the low or high string to the edge of fretboard.
    On a non expensive guitar there's a quick fix. Just sand a little of the length off one end of the bridge. "

    I know you put a caveat, and I'd agree.

    Just the sound of taking the sandpaper to any part of an instrument just scares me. Yes, that will work, but definitely not an ideal choice.
  • Jeff MooreJeff Moore Minneapolis✭✭✭✭ Lebreton 2
    Posts: 476
    Yeah, caveat!
    The right way is to move the moustache pieces of course.
    On your first thread you describe the bridge rocking. I've never experienced that. Mine sit flat though they can be made to rock like when you've loosened the strings.

    You definitely want the bridge to sit flat on the top and make good contact. If it does, it shouldn' tip either way.
    "We need a radical redistribution of wealth and power" MLK
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