How to recognize an original Selmer?

wim · March 11

https://djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/116212#Comment_116212

Resurrecting this thread to share what I wasn't able to find at the time in 2023 - a picture of Django with a 12 fret selmac. Dot on 9th fret.

paulmcevoy75 · March 11

Did you say that it was a tenor in the ledger? Than it might make sense that it was a 6 string conversion...

paulmcevoy75 · March 11

paulmcevoy75 · March 11

oh I see...162 already exists as a Tenor, forget it.

Nice looking guitar. Would have fooled me...

billyshakes · March 11

I think I remember this post. Similar thing came up with the DiMauro repro labels. The market is so small for these guitars that I'm not sure why someone would put so much effort into creating a fake like this? Is it to play for themselves (like relic'ed guitars?) If so, maybe they'd feel the mojo. Maybe it was an original neck where the box was crushed or otherwise unusable? But even then, wouldn't you take the number from that guitar to use? So many questions...I think Scot has it right. This guitar has an interesting story for sure...too bad it can't tell us.

As to the 9-fret dot, @wim , do you have a preference? Coming from my rock guitar days, I wanted a 9-fret dot when I built my Park. Then I bought the DuPonts and now more of my guitars have a 10 fret dot than a 9th fret. I do notice a bit of awkwardness when I switch between them, but I adjust quickly. I've almost started ignoring that dot and guiding either off of the 7th fret or the 12th fret. So, if I want to play F#7, I'll look to be 2 frets above the 7th fret. If I'm playing Dm, I'll be 2 frets back from the 12th etc.

paulmcevoy75 · March 11

I do 9th fret markers because I'm American. Freedom dots.

wim · March 11

As to the 9-fret dot, @wim , do you have a preference?

Strong preference for the 10th fret. It just makes more sense to me because the notes marked at dots 10 and 12 are then the same as the notes marked at dots 5 and 7 on the next string (e.g. you have a D and an E at 10 and 12 on the bottom string, or at 5 and 7 on the A string, etc). Somehow that helps with both mental navigation through arpeggios and also with visual navigation.

When there's a dot on the 9th fret I find it weirdly uncomfortable and off-putting during improvisation. Don't know why that should be, since I've learned on a classical guitar originally (no dots) and can play quite fine without any visual aid. Nonetheless, when there's the dot at 9th it's almost like my brain hesitates or second-guesses the position, and I'll mess up more often. The effect is bad enough that I'd probably never buy a guitar with it there!

I'm curious about the history of this difference between European guitars and US guitars, if anyone knows why it ended up that way. Actually it also seems to be a weird guitar-specific thing: other string instruments like mandolins, banjos etc all seem to have the 10th fret marker even in USA.

The only reason I can think to put a 9th fret marker is if you wanted to indicate natural harmonics (12, 7, 5, 9 indicate the first few natural harmonics), but that does not seem useful for any practical reason.

billyshakes · March 11

https://djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/120396#Comment_120396

You know, I never EVER stopped to think about that 10-12th fret vs 5th-7th fret connection on the next string. Makes sense! I'm going to have to practice and think about that for a bit to see what I feel on it.

Your thought on natural harmonics is a possibility, although I don't think the 9th fret harmonic is super strong. I might suspect it was just an aesthetic choice. By putting the double dots on the 12th fret if you go 3 up to 15 and 3 down to 9 you get a dot. 5 up to 17 or 5 down to 7 you get a dot, etc. Given no practical reason, an aesthetic reason would make sense. Now, this doesn't at all take into account the different distances to those frets due to the scale. Who knows?