Comments

• Russell Letson Prodigy

  March 22 Posts: 388

  I noticed this long ago, particularly with my late playing partner and mentor. We played together for nearly 20 years, and every time he took the lead, it was like hitting a stretch of smooth, newly-paved road. I've had a similar experience with the sax player in a jazz group I sit in with. I can't locate exactly what's going on, but the feeling is unmistakeable. I do know that my old partner had terrific time**--my earliest memories of his bandstand tutelage were the times he would lean over and whisper, "You're speeding up." Now I'm the guy who does that in a jam situation, though after the fact, since the speeder is usually across the circle.

  **He also had a good ear for pitch. He had worked at the college radio station and could tell when they used one of the turntables that he knew ran a bit slow.

  
• richter4208 ✭✭✭

  March 22 Posts: 544

  A player that improvises with poor timing can throw off the whole band. I've encountered this when practicing with a band and we throw a metronome on to keep us honest. Players with good timing don't have any problem but it will certainly bring out issues with some folks. These players play like that regardless of how steady you are keeping the rhythm considering it's even a problem when you have the metronome on.

  And that is to say it's not like you can't get thru a song with a player with timing issues, it's that they're sense of timing has some underlying issues and I believe that is actually what you are talking about Mike, it hurts you ability to support them because you are constantly feeling them pushing pulling against the tempo (and not in an intended way)

  
• Chiefbigeasy New Orleans, LA✭✭✭ Dupont MDC 50; The Loar LH6, JWC Catania Swing; Ibanez AFC151-SRR Contemporary Archtop

  March 23 Posts: 372

  When I hear the soloist play out of time, it does distract me a bit, but my job has the rhythm guitar in this instance is to remain rock steady with the bass. I’ve got to hope that during my solo, if I do get off track, or, more artistically, if I try to do something strange and interesting, at least I know I can fall back on the support of the rhythm section to find my way home.

  
• Buco NOVA, DCDeity Ivanovski maple/spruce

  March 24 edited March 24 Posts: 5,325

  Mike, this is a cool realization. The only time that I can remember comping for a very, very good soloist is Koran Agan. I don't remember anything that made me aware about what you said. Over here, in jams, it's the usual semi-pro hobbyist players and in our band I'm lead and Bill is on rhythm. Maybe he can say whether it grooves or it sucks when I solo. I'm aware that sometimes, if nerves creep in, I'll push the tempo on melody playing. At Django in June I might find myself in a jam with very good players but it's usually several guitars so you don't get a sense of synergy between just the two players.

  Anyway, it's really neat to play rhythm accompanying such a player. Must be a joy.

  

  Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
• Russell Letson Prodigy

  March 24 Posts: 388

  Speeding up (and less often slowing down) are less trouble than what I'd call "uncertain" time, which shows up most often at transitional points in a form (does the A start with pickup notes?) or where there are rests, but also when a singer/leader is having trouble with the lyric--again often a matter of ignoring rests--and strongly syncopated lyrics are particularly tough to get right ("Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard," "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"), and singers will hesitate just enough to throw the pulse off.

  
• Buco NOVA, DCDeity Ivanovski maple/spruce

  March 24 Posts: 5,325

  Don't want to derail a thread, but slowing down is a bigger problem at Django in June jams than the other way around.

  Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
• billyshakes NoVA✭✭✭ Park Avance - Dupont Nomade - Dupont DM-50E

  March 24 Posts: 1,579

  Maybe he can say whether it grooves or it sucks when I solo.

  Like I would ever say it sucks? 😂 You'll know it's fire when I audibly shout out. Like last night during the first set. 🔥

  
• pdg ✭✭

  March 24 Posts: 530

  Best thing, in my experience, is to hold steady and let the soloist rely on that and "float" above it all. If you listen to, e.g, Bireli's soloing, you'll hear him at times lag behind the beat or otherwise play fast and loose with the underlying beat. You shouldn't accomodate to that, since he's working off of the reliably steady rhythm.

  
• Buco NOVA, DCDeity Ivanovski maple/spruce

  March 24 Posts: 5,325

  https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/120555#Comment_120555

  You can be like "that was good, but..."

  @pdg you hear from the soloists a lot about how they rely on the rhythm section to help them sound good. That's why it was interesting to me to hear what Mike noticed, that it also happens the other way around.

  

  Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
• rarely_plays New

  March 25 edited March 25 Posts: 28

  This is how I see it. When you solo over a metronome on 2 and 4, you can make the metronome swing and actually sound good. Then you can stop playing for a moment and still hear the metronome swing. If someone where to walk by you at this moment, they would just hear a click, but you would be hearing a swinging metronome. This proves that the feeling and sense of swing is internal. When someone who has a great sense of swing plays with you and your rhythm improves, it is because their internal sense of swing is felt by you, which makes you swing better. Also, if you can make a metronome sound good, then you can make a rhythm player sound good and that rythym player will then have the personal experience of sounding better to their own ears, which feels like magic.

  -R