Chord Voicings

kungfumonk007

I went ahead and purchased one of DC's Rhythm Guitar lessons with Hono Winterstein (very well produced and worth it) and noticed almost immediately everything is completely voiced out meaning the 5th is almost always included and usually in a close low voicing. Is it just me or do the 5thless voicings sound better (or with the 5th on an upper string).

Is that a matter of preference or am I just wrong? For example (though in certain voice leading situations I'll use any/either/every voicing) it seems to me a Cmaj6 chord is much better voiced from low-high 7x687x giving more space between the root and 6th instead of having the root and 5th muddying up in the 799699 voicing.

Same thing with dominant chords with 5th string roots - doesn't a D7 usually sound better X54555 allowing you to play with the bass and alternate to 5x4555 then just to hit 554555.

One more example, isn't the Am6 shape more preferably played 5x4555 then 577577? Again those lower intervals, even P5ths sound muddy that closely voiced. It doesn't sound good to me when I play it, or when I hear Hono plays it, and the alternative voicings that are more spaced out seem to sound better.

Am I just wrong or are both these options consistently used? Is one style more closely related to a certain region or era with the other style being more closely related to different vein of gypsy jazz?

dennis

it's a stylistic thing , those chords that you tend to prefer are the chords that swing style players prefer, but gypsies tend to not like those voicings thinking they sound too "thin"...

Those chords are meant to sound muddy in gypsy jazz; rhythm players generally want the sound to be fairly greasy to the point where the strings somewhat distort (it's part of the right hand technique).

That Am6 voicing that you mentioned is generally used for lead playing , not so much for rhythm (i still teach it to beginners, because it's really easy to get started with); many gypsy players tend to consider that voicing "amateurish"; that said i've seen a few gypsy players use them (sparingly however); such as Stochelo Rosenberg or even Nous'che Rosenberg; but if u go to france or germany, you'll see most players favor the 577577 voicing.

kungfumonk007

Thanks - that makes sense.

kungfumonk007

The more I play them that way the more I like them. And you're right about the swing thing - I learned my voicings the Freddie Green Way and all my groups are swing groups :0) Definitely loving your videos! Thanks!

klaatu

As I understand it, the reason for the Freddie Green voicings is that, in the context of a big band, more complex chords tend to muddy the sound up (as does electric guitar, which is why you should use an acoustic archtop). The job of the big band guitarist is to provide rhythm, not harmony - the rest of the band provides the harmony. "Tuned percussion" is the best description. The three-note Freddie chords are very open, and the guitar should occupy a range between the bass and the piano's trebles.

Freddie simplified chords down to their basics, mostly 6s and 7s. Those extended chords you see in the guitar parts should not actually be played - the arrangers, who typically don't know anything about rhythm guitar, simply sum up all of the notes the orchestra is playing at that moment and come up with a chord that fits into the context. If that's a Bbmin11(b9b13) or some such beast, that's what they score. You simplify that down to a m7 (6x66xx) and away you go. Freddie would also tend to mute one or two of the notes so that one mid-rangy note came out very clearly.

HotTinRoof

Nice post Ben!!!

kungfumonk007

You're exactly right - this is my band: www.elevationswingorchestra.com Hence why I've preferred those voicings!

kungfumonk007

I would add to that great explanation that you are trying to kind of mind meld with the bass player. The guitar is barely perceptible and kind of just gives shape to the bass when the two are really in sync.

klaatu

kungfumonk007 wrote:

I would add to that great explanation that you are trying to kind of mind meld with the bass player. The guitar is barely perceptible and kind of just gives shape to the bass when the two are really in sync.

Absolutely. It's been said that the big band guitar should be felt more than heard.

As far as melding with the bass player, in an ideal world that would be true. As it happens, in this band, the bass player is an elderly gentleman who plays severely out of tune. The bass is tuned OK, it's his playing that's the problem. He doesn't hear it, but it drives me so crazy that I learned to tune him out years ago. He's a very old friend of the band leader, who I think doesn't have the heart to boot him out.

As a result I listen solely to the drummer, who's a great swing drummer and dead on rhythmically. I match his rhythms and especially time my 2 & 4 beats to match his. The band leader came back and listened one day and exclaimed "It sounds like we have two hi hats!" I thought that was cool.

Here's a video of the band at the Halifax Jazz Festival. I'm playing my '46 Epiphone Triumph.



... and here's one where I put down the guitar and sing the Dean Martin classic "Ain't That a Kick in the Head."

thickpick

John Pizzarelli offers an excellent explanation/demonstration of comping on his instructional Mel Bay VHS tape, "Jazz Guitar Virtuoso". Someone has posted it on YouTube (which I would normally be against, but the tape has been out of print since 2005, so at least it's being preserved). It's broken up into a bunch of sections, with the relevant stuff naturally falling right in the break between sections 3 and 4. If you only want to watch part 4, the line you're missing is...

I just want to say a few things about the sound of the rhythm guitar as you hear it as we are playing all these songs. You may just be only hearing one note. Sometimes when I do a recording session, the engineer will beep in and say 'I only hear one note in there'. Well sometimes that's all you hear because that's all I'm playing.

klaatu

Wow, that's a great video! Wish I had the whole thing. John has really captured the whole Freddie Green thing in the sense of fingering a chord voicing but letting just one note ring out. I haven't got the hang of that.

I saw John in concert in Halifax years ago. One of the best shows I've ever seen. Superb guitar playing and a great presence.