Been here? Done this?

Lango-Django

Since I started getting serious about GJ a few years ago, my playing has come a long way.

In 2008, I was able to go to "Django in June", where I attended every possible Michael Horowitz workshop, and purchased his book "Gyspy Picking".

Rethinking my righthand technique turned out to be the start of a whole new level of playing, and I have Michael to thank for that, as well as others, like Dennis Chang and Andreas Oberg...

And I don't want to forget so many of the players at this website who have been so generous with their ideas and support... I'm especially thinking of BluesBop Harry and Jazzaferri, but there have been lots of others, too!

I want to thank all of you!

OK, now here's my question... has this ever happened to you?

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You're jamming away and coming up with some really cool stuff... you've just thrown away the rulebook and just listening to your fingers as they surprise you with some clever, unexpected phrases. You're not just regurgitating the same-old-same-old-tried-and-true... The Muse of Melody is standing right by your side, and she's smiling!

You play phrase 'X'--- it's great!!!--- and it just naturally leads you to play phrase 'Y'--- and it, too, is great!!!

Now, it is totally obvious and logical what phrase 'Z' will be: you've set it up so that this phrase is inevitable--- it MUST be phrase 'Z', and ONLY phrase 'Z', to answer the pattern set up by 'X' and 'Y'.

But alas, when you go to play 'Z', OH SHIT!

You just can't find the notes you're looking for!

Mayday! Mayday!... Crash and Burn.......AAAAAAAHHHHH!

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And as you stand beside the smoldering ruins of your solo, you ask yourself questions like,

"What the fuck happened?"

Or, "What the fuck is wrong with me?"

Or "What the fuck am I doing wrong?"

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Okay, guys, here's where the support and wisdom come in... tell me about the things you've found helpful in making your imagination the total master of your fingers...

Ear training for intervals? ... Playing popular songs by ear? Just plain jamming a lot?

... other ideas? I'd love to hear 'em... don't be shy!

Thanks,

Will

Jazzaferri

When one is in the groove thinking about what you are about to play will get you right out of the zone

I suggest you read Kenny Werner's Effortless Mastery. You already have the music in you now. He will show you how to get (pardon me but I am working on the same so I say this with all humility) your ego out of the way

Something else comes to mind. Perhaps Stochelo said when playing live that stress drops our ability a fair bit. In order to play well in public one needs to play wy better in practice sessions than what one wants to play in public Hope I am not too unclear on this

Lango-Django

Yes, I do know that book, it's a real good read and actually I agree with most of it, well, except the "God" part I'm an atheist...

But there are those times when I'm hearing stuff in my head, and I really want to play it, but I can't!!!!

See, I think my inability to play what is in my head is probably related to a deficiency in my ear, because I can only play what I know how to "hear" and finger... and like a lot of us guitar players I can be kinda iffy on wide-interval leaps... but you don't agree?

I like that you are a sax player too--- do you feel much difference in improvising between sax and guitar? You don't have that "visual" thing on sax, for example, where you're always looking at your fingers...

Jazzaferri

I work hard at trying to not look at my fingers when I play guitar

I spent years working really hard on guitar scales decades ago. I still do a few every day but now i spend most of my scale practice time noodling in a chord progression. Working out my own lines kinda

I played sax from 10 to about 18 when I buried my front teeth in a steering wheel. Started again a few years ago after I had an operation that allowed me to play. Whew dental surgury ain't cheap

Anyway sax gives me thinking in melodic lines .... patterns don't exist. Guitar has given me a real understanding of the power and uses of arpeggiation. The most important part for me for both instruments is rhythm. The old music isn't found in the notes ...it's found in the spaces between the notes deal.

In my experience what stops me from playing what's in my head is lack of technique. I often hear
things that I would love to play but I simply don't have the technique to do. Often what I hear probably isn't able to be played on one instrument. I am learning to not lose my groove to chase those dreams.

The power in kenny's book is in following and working on the process

Lango-Django

Anyway sax gives me thinking in melodic lines .... patterns don't exist.

OK, can we talk a bit about this? Because I play sometimes with a superior sax player, and I think that's very true...

So I guess my question is, how can we "patterns-DO-exist" arpeggio-obsessed guitarists get that whole "thinking in melodic lines" thing happening in our playing?

Or is it just not gonna happen, due to the nature of the instrument we're playing?

THAT's what I really want to talk about!!!!

Jazzaferri

Aahhhh. Deprogramming

First suggestion I have is copy licks from non guitarists If you like Stephane's playing learn some of his solos

If you don't mind stepping outside the genre learn some of Louis Armstrongs or Sidney Bechets lines


DONT watch your fingers

Take a solo you know and spend some time each day playing it differently. In this exercise it is best to try and use all different fingerings. Or as many as possible

If your playing mostly across the neck pretend you only have one or two strings and play your stuff on them

The goal is to break up your comfortable go to patterns. Another one that may help is take a tune you know well and using only the chord tones for each of the changes play a musical solo with only those notes If you are as warped and weird as me try it with using only no chord tones

Go crazy and tape your ring and pinky together and pla like Django for a month.

I believe you have to do two things. First is to break up patterns and two work you mind to hear out of the patterns you have learned. When you learn a pattern via repetition as we all do in guitar your brain hears it over and over and over

Have fun with it all

Jim Kaznosky

You've just described my weekly gig. I'm in year 2.5 in GJ and the same situation occurs for me almost weekly as I start to take more and more solos regularly. I talk alot of this stuff out with the better players on my gig and its always the same answer...don't think about the chords, just think about melody. This is really easy for these folks to say after several times a week with great players for years.
Listening to non-GJ players is a good idea. We read that Django was influenced by Louis Armstrong. Why not go there? The bass player in my sit transposes vocalist lines. That's a great idea that I haven't done yet. A guy I took lessons from talks about listening to contemporaries and learning their lines. Another idea to develop this would be to start playing a solo in a place where you wouldn't expect it. Play chords a third of the way into the chorus and start your solo idea there.

In lessons with Gonzalo, we talk about the ability to move lines to other keys and the key to do this is to be able to play licks in as many positions as possible. It's kind of impossible to play some licks the same way in different positions, so modify them for those positions.

My goal with this has always been to try to play within this style, but at the same time, try to use the techniques I'm learning to play melodically. To tell a story, so to speak. I always marvel at the guys who play through the barriers of and even ignore the changes and are able to give the listeners a reason to raise their head from their beer, coffee, or moules frites.

Also, listen to Clifford Brown. Man. I love that stuff. I'm sort of hoping that I can use what I'm learning to get to the point to create lines like that. That's some great stuff.

Jazzaferri

I forgot to mention if one can carry a pitch ok sing your lines and learn to play what you sing as you sing it.

bbwood_98

I will second some ideas pointed out here, with the caveat that I am a rhythm player and don't really like to solo (Though I practice it, and occasionally am forced to do it). The bop players (the good ones anyway) can sing their solos, If you can't you don't own it, and it's not a great solo. I work on this a lot when soloing (not working on technical things). A good idea is to take a rhythm track, sing a solo and transcribe it. I work on a lot of bop solos as well- Clifford, Bird, Monk are my current faves. Note that the vocal idea will really help you develop your own lines as well. A famous story: A guitar virtuoso was sitting in with les paul, plays a remarkable solo fast, amazing tecnique . . . les says "man that was great, but no one will remember it . . . in fact I forgot it already!

Cheers,
And good luck!
b.

DjangoJim

I'll share what was said to me early in my formative Django days, I told another guitarist that I couldn't possible play as well as all those killer Gypsy guys. He said, "just choose your notes, man."

Live playing: It's not what wanting what you can't play, it's digging what you can in the moment.

Private practice: If your are listening for those musical moments, your ears will lead you to find those golden notes, licks, phrases. (I like to journal those ideas by scribing them in a notepad before I forget them). Then rinse, repeat...

Jazzaferri

While singing ones solos is a good trick. I am a bit taken aback that I have tossing whilst playing sax solo otherwise it isn't a good solo. Singing while playing is a sax technique but cretes an effect that done all the time would be boring