progress further on improvisation

yuaaa680

Hi all,

I have been learning gypsy jazz guitar for close to 2 years now and i feel that i am kinda stuck at this stage. I'm quite confident with my rest stroke picking, la pompe techniques and chords. However, improvising is the main problem. What I have been working on up to now is transcribing a lot of Djangos solos by ear. I do understand how those melodies or licks are connected with the chords/progression. But I find that when I play freely, accompanied by backing tracks or with my friend, I run out of ideas on what to play or even find myself playing random notes! I play a lot of djangos licks or often I play the whole django solo first and sometimes just simple arpegios if I can't think of anything else to play. I've read that it helps to listen to different gypsy jazz players and the licks they use. And that helps to come up with your own playing style. Should I be transcribing other artist that I like as well and learning and memorizing as many of their licks that I like?

Eventhough I have learn a lot of Djangos licks, I often forget about them when jamming.

I'm sure this topic might have been covered before long ago but was wondering if anyone could kindly give me some advice on this again? How should I be learning to continue to progress further?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Jon

Don't learn lots of licks - just learn a few, but learn to use them really well. It could take months to integrate a new lick well, but in the end, it'll be really part of your playing if you just work on that one. Play solos where you just use one lick - nothing else at all - great practice. Learning lots of stuff is a sure fire way to make sure you never remember any of it. Play a little bit of stuff over and over and over until it's solid.

Also, when you are playing freely - it's a very good discipline to never allow yourself to "find yourself playing somethng". If you're not 100% sure what it is you're doing - stop doing it. Practice playing only from a place of certainty. If you're not entirely sure what the arpeggio is, or how the lick fits the chord, stop and work it out properly and slowly, don't just keep playing and re-enforcing the bad habit.

Hope that helps

Jon

yuaaa680

Thanks a lot for the great advice Jon. Will definitely work on those points. So I should be trying to learn how to use only some licks and learn them very well but during most of my playing I should learn to play my own stuff? I've have watch some lessons online about improvisation and how they say that you should always try to play something that is from yourself eg. a melody that you've made up/hear in your mind. I find this very hard to do when I'm playing. Could this be because I'm not absorbing the music I'm listening to or not having the 'the feelings' when I'm playing? haha. Is there a way to help me start up? Do you think learning to change/ add notes to the arpegio would be a start? Thanks again for those advice. Found them very helpful.

Jon

Don't worry too much about being original or playing "from yourself" yet. That comes later after you are very, very comfortable just playing well. I don't mean that you should only learn a few licks because I'm telling you to play more of your own stuff, but because I think you should limit the total amount of different things you play in order to play them really well.

Nothing wrong with playing licks (especially in this style). Learn one, and then use it until you can't forget it, and while you're doing that, don't play anything else at all, except the lick - no arpeggios, no nothing. Play a whole song over and over only using that one lick - nothing else at all. Just focus on that bit of information and play it wherever you can. Don't play anything else at all. Play that one thing over and over again with whatever song you're practicing. That way it'll stick in your mind and you won't forget it. Don't learn or practice any other material until that one lick is perfect and unforgettable.

Jon

yuaaa680

Got it, will start focusing more on those then. Thanks Jon, great help! Take care

gijsdhaene

Helpfull thread for me!

Thank you

kevingcox

You talked about arpeggios... are you playing straight arpeggios from bottom to top or are you adding ornamentation? If you aren't already, try adding enclosure/approach notes around a small part of the arpeggio. Then try linking the arpeggios together with chromatics or little riffs.

I have also found from time to time that taking a week off can help. I have done this a few times and come back feeling like my playing is more dynamic than ever because I am less hung up in mechanics and just flowing.

Best of luck,

-Kevin

yuaaa680

I used to practise that a bit but I must admit that I dont do that enough now adays because I've been focusing too much on transribing Django's whole solos and memorizing his licks. Maybe its because I'm trying to play like Django too much or trying to learn the traditional way (or what I think is part of how the gypsies learn from the start) and anything else that I play just doesnt sound right to me or sound manouche enough haha. But I think your right, I need to practise those arpeggios more and be a bit creative. Do you think maybe adding ornamentations to Django's solos/licks would be a good start as well?

Thanks for the tips Kevin.

Anyone know how the gypsies learn to play solos from the beginning? I'm sure there are no strict ways but I guess there must be a trend/common steps. I notice that a lot of the great gypsy jazz players today say that at one point they played a lot of Djangos solos note for note. And the video of Dorado teaching young Samson and also Serge krief giving lessons on some licks to his student gave me an impression that this is quite an important part in learning this style.

arjr

Hi Jon,

I'm almost in the same boat as yuaaa680,
can you explain how to play one lick over an entire song?



Angelo

yuaaa680

I think he means that you would keep playing the same Am lick whenever Am comes up in the song. Pls correct me if I'm wrong

W.B

im a beginner aswell, but i think he means that you need to go with the changes of the chords and repeat the same lick and when the chord is changing you change chord too and play the same lick there.