Have I to avoid pentatonics?

sjl

Have I to avoid pentatonic scales for playing gipsy jazz or Have I to play them in some proper way?

anthon_74

Sometimes you play shapes similar to a pentatonic scale, but by and large, you don't really use them, definitely NOT the way you do in blues and rock.
That said, You could, for example, play an A minor pentatonic scale over a C chord, but you would probably end up skipping certain notes, and simply outlining the chord tones of the C.
By and large, if you currently use a lot of pentatonics, (like I did before I started GJ) you will need to put them away for now. Maybe add them down the road once you've learned to phrase without relying on them.
In talking to elite GJ-ers like Gonzalo Barguera, and Paul Mehling, I have learned that scales aren't often used at ALL. Mostly arpeggios and patterns around the arpeggio chord tones that use notes a half step below a chord tone and a whole step above a chord tone (except for the 3rd of a major chord and the 5th of a minor chord in which you play the note 1/2 step above as well as below).

Do you have Stephan Wrembles "getting into Gypsy Jazz book ? It's good for what you're looking for.

Cheers !
Anthony

Jazzaferri

There are 12 notes in the chromatic scale. In improvisation The other scales are just smaller collections of notes that give a slightly greater chance of not playing something too outside the box

As Charlie Parker said learn em all well and then forget about them. Just play music.

sjl

Thanks a lot, pals!

gypsyblue

Any one else got good things to say about Stephan Wrembles "getting into Gypsy Jazz as recomended in last addition to this thread?

I have never seen it but heard it is usefull stuff?

worth gettin?

anthon_74

Getting into Gypsy Jazz by Stephen Wremble is good for certain things, specifically, he gives pretty much all the main arpeggios you will need in "guitar diagram" form. He gives them to you in every position/inversion, and includes "up and across" style arps, which he calls "open". His is NOT the book you want if you're looking specifically for a collection of "licks". While there are some in this, it is not the focus. He also gives you some pretty good practice guidelines for use in playalongs.

If you want "licks" get Dennis Changs 'art of improv' discs, Gonzalo Barguera's "How I learned" Vol.1, and 2, and "Gypsy Fire" (though you will find overlapping licks in these 3 books.) . I don't have robin Nolan's essential GJ licks, but I hear it's also a "must have" .

Of course, the purists would say to just go transcribe a dozen or so original Django solos and get your licks directly from the source.
Anthony

Passacaglia

Odd timing, and I hope it's helpful what I post here. I've been feeling somewhat awash in practicing. Taking a break on trying to transcribe solos - for me, I think might have been putting the cart a bit before the horse. On good advice elsewhere, listening a lot, finding a tune to work on simple melody, and otherwise, in terms of lead playing, I'm on an arps diet exclusively - Wrembel.

I enjoyed Denis's DVDs, when I began with them a few years ago (regretfully couldn't give them much of a chance, at the time); but find grabbing licks, at my stage of the game, a bit disjointed - can't really feel the inner logic, at least not yet (I do think being born to it, and playing it in lieu of everything else, might have helped). I can only say there's something personally satisfying in doing eighth note arps as cleanly as I can, in rhythm, across chords. It feels like solid ground.

pmg

I just discovered Gypsy Jazz School and highly recommend the "shapes" oriented approach that Yaakov Hoter provides in several of his lessons e.g., I Can't Give You Anything But Love.

For us rockers that learned improvisation via pentatonics, it is a real challenge to break away from our favorite licks and learn this style. I have all the other books mentioned in this post (and many more!), but have found some refreshing new and very usable materials at GJS that can be applied almost immediately and allow you to break free from scales and blues licks to get a very authentic GJ sound.

Highly recommended!!!

Pierrot

Why? A major pentatonic scale is a 6/9 arpeggio and a minor pent is a m7/11 arp.

Guillaume

Pentatonic licks seem to work pretty well over "rythm changes" based tunes, like Daphne, Swing 42, Belleville.

anthon_74

pmg wrote:

I just discovered Gypsy Jazz School and highly recommend the "shapes" oriented approach that Yaakov Hoter provides in several of his lessons e.g., I Can't Give You Anything But Love.

Hey there ! Can you elaborate a bit on the shapes based approach ? This sounds like it might be something I've been looking for but I'm not sure.

what I find particularly helpful is when a "lick" is presented in sections based on which chord shape is being used - ie - These are all licks you can play over the E shape bar chord.... These are all usable over a D shape chord form.... and so on.

That way, you can easily transpose licks from one key to another.