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Speed kills the swing/time to get back to dancing.

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  • KarenAnnKarenAnn Virginia✭✭
    Posts: 55
    Thanks OldSouth, for the info on the medicine show. Just watched it. Still laughing. Love that St. Louis Blues... It is available for free streaming at Folkstreams.net. A lot of other interesting ones there to check out too.
  • oldsoutholdsouth New
    Posts: 52
    KarenAnn wrote:
    Thanks OldSouth, for the info on the medicine show. Just watched it. Still laughing. Love that St. Louis Blues... It is available for free streaming at Folkstreams.net. A lot of other interesting ones there to check out too.

    Awesome - thanks! I did not know that... just caught it on PBS a few years go. You can hear some of Hash House Harry Ellington on a blog called western swing on 78. Here: http://westernswing78.blogspot.com/2008 ... dings.html
    He played with Charlie Poole Jr.'s band in the 30s and 40s.

    While you're there, be sure to download all of Emmett Miller's music - some of it is a live, in studio Medicine Show re-creation. Emmett Miller's guitarist was the father of jazz guitar, Eddie Lang. Both Dorsey brothers and Gene Krupa also played in his band. The music is fantastic and the humor, http://www.ncvisitorcenter.com/Birth_of ... .htmlwhile politically incorrect is, is very, very funny. Here is an article I wrote on him a few years ago:
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,665
    oldsouth, your second link has an extraneous word in it - the "while" got lumped in with the html, so you get a bad link. It should read http://www.ncvisitorcenter.com/Birth_of_Country_Music.html

    Thanks for that priceless info.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • bbwood_98bbwood_98 Brooklyn, NyProdigy Vladimir music! Les Effes. . Its the best!
    Posts: 673
    Oh man . . .
    Ok. Yes- Michael and Benny, the musicians changed jazz from "swing" to bop; but lets be very clear, according to most of them they did not remove the dance elements - that came later; in talking with the old guys here in the city from the bop era, people danced even in the smoky dive bars that held the after hours sessions. They are still (some of them) packed with people, having fun, and emoting and dancing to jazz music here in NYC. I think; as one of you pointed out; that bop and "modern" jazz players often exceed their own understanding= they make mistakes and call it cool. interesting. or hip. instead of being able to sing their own solos; play by ear, and swing like crazy. This is something all the bop players could do- Bird, Monk, Diz, Sonny stitt, and so on could all sing, swing and play really great melodies.
    Cheers,
    B.
  • Id love to see someone dancing to and singing with one of Coltranes sheets of sound 15 minute high speed solos or chris potter or ...long list not attached.... :mrgreen: it would be hilarious for a short period.

    Most singers couldnt articulate fast enough to get the notes out :shock: :twisted:

    Dancing to pharoah sanders or ornette colemen. This i gotta see

    Interestingly, altoist Kenny Garrett who did a 5 year stint with Miles Davis, has a couple of tunes that he does that he works withnthe audience to get them going with the music

    Hopefullyni havent screwed up the link. He gets the audience singing the riff toward the end.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u_TtM4i45kQ
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • oldsoutholdsouth New
    Posts: 52
    klaatu wrote:
    oldsouth, your second link has an extraneous word in it - the "while" got lumped in with the html, so you get a bad link. It should read http://www.ncvisitorcenter.com/Birth_of_Country_Music.html

    Thanks for that priceless info.


    Thanks man!
  • oldsoutholdsouth New
    Posts: 52
    bbwood_98 wrote:
    Oh man . . .
    Ok. Yes- Michael and Benny, the musicians changed jazz from "swing" to bop; but lets be very clear, according to most of them they did not remove the dance elements - that came later; in talking with the old guys here in the city from the bop era, people danced even in the smoky dive bars that held the after hours sessions. They are still (some of them) packed with people, having fun, and emoting and dancing to jazz music here in NYC. I think; as one of you pointed out; that bop and "modern" jazz players often exceed their own understanding= they make mistakes and call it cool. interesting. or hip. instead of being able to sing their own solos; play by ear, and swing like crazy. This is something all the bop players could do- Bird, Monk, Diz, Sonny stitt, and so on could all sing, swing and play really great melodies.
    Cheers,
    B.

    That is a good point - A lot of bop was taking familiar tunes and using substitutions, tweaking them, opening up the harmonies. Bird, Diz, Stit, and the others players with such exuberance and joy that it would be hard not to tap your foot or snap fingers. Monk was a bit more enigmatic. By the time you get to Ornette Coleman and Sun Ra though, it is purely listening music and probably not very appealing to many int he general audience - like Captain Beefheart, an acquired taste!
  • CuimeanCuimean Los AngelesProdigy
    Posts: 271
    Monk had no problem dancing to Monk!
  • oldsoutholdsouth New
    Posts: 52
    Monk also had a brain tumor. I don't mean that to be glib. Historically, brain tumors have been known to affect areas of the brain either to positive or negative effect - Monks may have made him think and hear on different levels than regular players. I don't know, but I saw an interview with him once and I think what some took as hipster jive was really near incoherence in speech due to the tumor. I think he may have heard every rhythm and possibility of playing melody at once - like taking every possible way of playing a tunes, and tossing it in blender then reassembling it into music. Or, he could have just been a very idiosyncratic genius.
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    Posts: 654
    Man, you guys are tough on the academics! But I think you are off the mark. I never went to a day of college myself but over the years I've played with many university-educated musicians in many different styles. They all wanted exactly the same thing that all musicians want - to play the best music they are capable of, and without exception were good, skilled players. I don't play much bebop but it's great music and fortunately is still being played at a high standard in many university music schools. In the 50s it really was very popular. Jazz records made up the majority of US record sales in the 50s - maybe a large part of this was the so-called "cool" jazz from the west coast which was certainly less demanding on the listener. But lots of people liked jazz then - my blue-collar parents had a lot of jazz records and so did their friends - they'd seen Monk, Mulligan, Coltrane and many other famous jazz players. Jazz wasn't just for highbrows back then. It was part of the whole modern jet-age vibe of the 50s and 60s - players like Monk were even on TV shows like the Jack Paar show. Jazz got eclipsed by rock music, of course, but it always had appeal for certain people - I guess a lot of them turned out to be university professors. Certainly learning to play in the university environment isn't any less "authentic" than learning from a series of DVD lessons or books. The balanced approach is probably best...

    I have heard variations on this argument (authenticity, ethnicity, etc) again and again in many styles of music - old-timey and bluegrass, Irish music, blues, etc. I agree with Birili - anyone can play any kind of music, and the end, it still comes down to the individual. We all have to learn in the way that suits us best - or in the ways available...

    I think the factors that caused the demise of bal-musette as popular dance music in France also helped drive jazz and dancing apart here - the end of WW2 and the urgent need for a new popular culture to replace the wartime culture. People wanted to forget. Dancing and the music associated with it has always changed quickly with changes in pop culture - people danced to the Jefferson Airplane etc in hippie ballrooms, but within only a few years they were in discos and mosh pits and just as quickly at raves. I'd even say that it's a normal progression - that after a relatively brief period of time, most forms of popular dance music ultimately become music for listening, become forms of cult music, or (thankfully!)disappear altogether.

    It's also interesting how many forms of non-commercial acoustic music have roots as dance music. I can't dance a lick, but played in many all-acoustic dance bands - polka, contra, morris, old-timey/square dance, waltz, etc. Playing dances of any kind will build up your stamina and it'll really help you with your "groove". Plus it's fun!
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