How do gipsies learn?

sjl

I am amazed about the amount of information gipsy guitarists know being (the vast majority) not instructed in theory.
How do they know such amount of chords?
How do they know the arpeggios, scales,...?

I remember a Bireli's interview where He said he doesn't know what a dominant chord was.

crookedpinky

I play regularly with two Polish gypsies and they do have some knowledge of chords but from what I can gather they don't know or think about things like intervals or chord structures in the way that we do.

I think the contrast is that we analyse music in almost classical western terms - intervals and the relationships between intervals - that's how we try and learn this stuff and then play it in as free and natural a way as possible. Maybe there's a contradiction in those two things, it's a bit like learning to paint by numbers and then being disappointed that we never create another Mona Lisa.

I genuinely believe that my gypsy pals have a much better sense of listening to music being played, somehow intuitively matching chord shapes and patterns to tunes without necessarily understanding why they "work".

Hopefully that makes some sort of sense

Alan

sjl

I think some of us are missing the ear approach.
Dennis is always praying about this way of learning.

marcelodamon

I have been saying this for years! The best way to learn is to learn the way the gypsies learn; everything by ear; and this is coming from a college of music graduate.

Learning things phrase by phrase by the "sound" of it makes you a better improviser and all around musician.

jlander9

Immersion. It's not a Gypsy thing it’s a Human thing. Think of it in terms of language. To speak your native language you didn’t go to school, learn the alphabet, rules of grammar etc. then learn to speak. You knew how to speak and communicate efficiently without these things. A person that is illiterate may not know how to read or write but they can carry a conversation without any problem. This is possible because we become immersed in the language of our culture. The same goes for our taste in music, clothes, beliefs etc….
I did fieldwork in a few Zapotec pueblos in Oaxaca, Mexico. Children were exposed to musical instruments and music at early age. In this case the instruments were percussion and brass instruments. It was some of the most amazing music I had ever heard being played in the middle of a forest. Ask them about the Circle of Fifths, chord inversions, intervals etc. and they give you a WTF look. You want to truly learn Gypsy Jazz in this way I suggest start hanging out with a ton of musicians that are as good as or better than you, or move to a place where Gypsy Jazz is a part of daily life. I agree with the others, ear training is important but it’s not the key, its immersion. I promise you, go live with Gypsies (that actually play Gypsy Jazz, not all do) for one year, and you’ll come back an awesome player (you may actually learn another language too). I wish I could, but I can’t so back to my forums and books!!!!! (all of which are helpful and a form of immersion, think about how much you’ve learned on this website alone.) This is comming from an anthropology graduate :shock:

Jazzaferri

I find theory useful when i want to discuss something musical with someone who also understands thery. Sometimes it saves picking up the instrment and demonstrating. 8) After all theory is just words to describe what we are hearing.

Theory rules are made for the guidance of artists and the obeissance of fools

I never think of theory when i play. I am even too lazy to slow stuff down. I just listen to it until I have it in my hed and then figure it out the old way.