Need help with guide tones

jlander9

Hi All,

I just ran into Emily Remlers Bebop-Swing video.. She stresses using guide tones revolving on the 3rd and 7th of the chords. Can anyone offer more info on this and maybe an example of it in a GJ tune?

Best

Jazzaferri

I will try and keep this basic.

For guitar or any other multi note instrument the guide tones are the chord tones that most define the chord. Guide tone lines are more complicated as they take the harmonic context of a section so lets just start with the guide tones.

For major 7 minor 7 and the dominant 7 chords the most important notes are the 3 and the 7. If you are getting lost at this point, in order to understand the concept you will need to get more theory.

The 3 and the 7 define the character of the chord and are the most usual guide tones.

For a standard Ii V I progression in C major the chords would be D-7 G7 and Cmaj7

The guide tones for D-7 are F and C the giude tones for G7 are B and F and the guide tones for Cmaj7 are E and B.

The concept is the same but more open to interpretation on single note instruments.

for Lesson 1 play a bar of 2 D-7 chords a la pompe then 2 G7 chords a la pompe followed by a bar of 4 Cmaj7 chords a la pompe. Then play the same progression on the top two strings using the F(s2f6) and C (s1f8) for two beats using the pompe feel and then drop to fret 7 on string 1 (note that the G7 guide tones are being played with the 7 as the lower note) for two beats and then move the finger on string 5 from the 6th fret to the 5th fret and play 4 dyads of the 3/7 of C major 7 a la pompe.

All the notes of the dyads (2 notes played at same time) should be played with downstroke on just the two strings. You can hear how by changing a single Note each time you change the chord the harmonic movement gets defined.

Once you hve that down AND I MEAN DOWN COLD come back to me on this if you want and we will go through some more on this topic

jlander9

wow, ask and you shall receive! As always you come through Jazzaferri. I'll get to it. Keep you posted. A million thanks. 8)

tacosandbeer

Jazzaferri wrote:

.....For guitar or any other multi note instrument the guide tones are the chord tones that most define the chord.

This statement can be misleading for someone seeking information and direction. The guide tones are not determined by the instrument, they are the same for all instruments, "multi-note" or not.

Jazzaferri

Yes you are correct,

I was trying to keep it in a guitar context and worded it badly.

Therefore i should have explained the difference between a guide tone and a guide tone line and indicated that in creating guide tone lines for single note instruments one has to choose the appropriate guide tone. That was kinda what i was going to do next.

Thanks for your comment

dlincoln

jlander9, I think that "I've Got Rhythm" is a perfect example of a tune that you could employ guide tones on, though any tune would do. The bridge which goes: D7 - G7 - C7 - F7 (dominates going round in the circle of fifths) allows you to chase their tritone intervals right down the neck.

EX: D7 = xx10, 11, xx G7 = xx9, 10 xx C7 = xx8, 9 xx F7 = xx8, 9 xx . There is a lot of comping possibilities with intervals in lieu of chords. Jim Hall can imply a lot with very little. Best wishes to you.

jlander9

dlincoln, Thanks for mapping that out for me, Much appreciated. I will give this one a shot and let you know how its working out.

Jazzaferri

Yes Rhythm changes are a variant of the ii V I resolution as the vi is the relative minor of the I major.

So for anyone following this as you can tell the guide tones as written above arent very musically exciting to say the least however the concept is a great comping tool particularly in a gj jam where a whole lot of rythm players are chunking out la pompe.

First off, in the gj genre the major chord is often played as a 6 or 6/9 chord and there are lots of minor 6s. For these chords the guide tones are the 3 and the 6 and in the 6/9 the 9 can often beuseful too. If the song really needs the triadic major sound to work then the 3 and either the 5 or 1 can be used if you want to use 2 notes

So for C major 6/9 the usual guide tones would be E and A For A-6 itheynare C and F# etc etc.

So if all we were doing is comping using the 3/7 or 3/6 why call them guide tones? Well once able to look at a series of chords and know the guide tones you can start to create guide tone lines. And rather than blether on a lot about guide tone lines I will dig out a few sheets that have guide tone lines and post one of them to demonstrate the concept which will shorten my post on that by at least a 1000 words. One for single note lines around which to base a solo and one with 2 notes for a comping example.

jlander9

I was wondering about the 6 chords!!! So, (if i'm getting this right) the guide tones for a tune like Minor Swing, with the chords A-6, D-6 , E7, my guide tones would be A-6=C, F# D-6=F,B and E7= G#, D. And if necessary i use the 1, 3, or 5 of each chord.....But how do these tones become lines?.....Which I take it you will explain in your upcoming example.. .... So far so good!

lacrossehotclub

Guide tones give harmonic pull between the chords that are played in a progression. Because the “color” of a chord is usually expressed by 3rd and 7th these intervals will be the strongest guide tones between chords.

For example, in a ii V I progression the strongest guide tones occur when the 7th of one chord resolves to the 3rd of the next chord. For the progression | Dm7 G7 | C6 | the 7th of the Dm7 (C) resolves to the 3rd of the G7 (B), and then the 7th of the G7 (F) resolves to the 3rd of the C6 (E). In order to hear where guide tones occur rhythmically you could start by playing quarter notes over the progression like this | C C B F | E E E E |

Another way to approach guide tones is the take a song and start by playing one of the chord tones in quarter notes until the next chord comes along and then find the nearest neighbor that will harmonize with the new chord.

For example, a simple progression for the beginning of All of Me is-
| C | C | E7 | E7 | A7 | A7 | Dm | Dm |

The following notes could be played-
| C C C C | C C C C | B B B B | B B B B | A A A A | Bb Bb A A | G G G G| F F F F |
or
| G G G G | G G G G | G# G# G# G# | G# G# G# G# | A A A A | Bb Bb C# C# | D D E E | F F F F |

This will sound pretty dorky at first but it’s a simple exercise to start hearing guide tones and connecting them with passing notes to develop lines. Experiment with chromatics, triplets, whatever, just so long the guide tones change when the chords change.

jlander9

lacrossehotclub: Very nice example! I noticed the relationship between the chords but it completely flew over my head that the tones resolved into one another. very cool! If i'm following your example, the C is the 1 of the C chord, B is the 5 of E7, A is the 1 of A7 etc... however, the Bb is throwing me off? How does it fit within the A7 chord? is it a chromatic run up to the C# (3rd) of the A7? >>>Also, not dorky at all, I'd be a dork if I didn't take the time to learn the basics!!!