First Gypsy guitar - Dhole or oval?

GuitArtMan

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Altamira M01 and am trying to decide between the D hole and the oval hole. This will be an internet purchase so I won't be able to play before I buy. My local tech has Gitane DG-255 with oval hole and Paris Swing (I'm not sure the model) with a D hole. Of those two, I prefer the Gitane, but that may be due the fact it's a more expensive guitar ($650 for the Gitane, $350 for the Paris Swing).

So, for a beginner to Gypsy guitar would you recommend a D hole or oval hole and why?
Thanks
Bob

noodlenot

if you´re used to shorter scale lengths or have small hands, the D hole could be a better bet.

disclaimer: i don´t own a d-hole and have only played one once (a lovely dupont).
conventional wisdom has it that D-hole is better suited for rhythm, with the oval better for lead, but i never understood that completely and it seems nowadays the water is muddier in that regard anyway. probably a matter of tradition, as so many other things in this niche; the increased tension of the longer scale could give an extra-edge in volume (emphasis on "could"), while the bigger sound-hole on the D-hole would shift the lower air resonance up a bit, probably taking with it a bit of bass and "body", which could help in a scenario of two (or more) rhythm guitars playing synchronized.

two other things to take notice: the d-hole has more eye-candy potential, and it´s easier to take stuff out of the box when your 1 year hold baby starts putting strange things inside your guitar.

good luck,
miguel

MichaelHorowitz

noodlenot wrote:

if you´re used to shorter scale lengths or have small hands, the D hole could be a better bet.

That would be true for a 12 fret D hole, however the Altamira M01D is a 14 fret D hole so the scale length is the same.

klaatu

My personal experience, for what it's worth, is that the D hole versus oval hole decision is 1) very subjective, and 2) very dependent on the maker. The original Selmer D holes came with a 640mm scale, and the 670mm scale of the later oval gave more "bite" and projection, which suited them well for lead playing. Nowadays, there is a lot of demand for D holes with the longer scale, which muddies the waters a bit. The one thing you can say for sure is that the D hole will give you, the player, more aural feedback because the sound disperses more. A D hole from a high quality builder will probably sound pretty tight and will serve well for both lead and rhythm. When you get into Asian guitars, the D holes are liable to be more "wet" and muddy sounding. I would be inclined to go for an oval in that case.

As to hand size and scale length, I have rather small hands and used to think |I needed a short scale guitar, but I learned to adjust. Unless your hands are unusually small, the long 670mm scale should not be a problem.

People who come from a flattop background often find the D hole more satisfying at first, but an oval hole might be a better bet in the long term, especially if you're looking at Asian guitars. The Altamira M01 oval is a very nice guitar for the price.

GJFAN

I bought my first gypsy jazz guitar about 7 or 8 months ago. For a trade in and some cash I managed to get a hand made Geoff Struthers Dhole. There was not a good selection around where I live and after playing some Gitanes and the like I spent a little more and got the Struthers. It was really nicely set up.
Some observations:
It is only a 12 fret model and although I do have fairly large hands I feel more comfortable on a it due to hand fatigue after long practise hours. If they had a 14 fret model in stock by the same maker I probably would have bought it instead because you can run out of room pretty fast on a 12 fret model for soloing although there is usually a way around it.
I really liked the Dhole sound wise compared to the Oval but again I was dealing with a limited selection of guitars, some of them not set up very well and uncomfortable to play. With a wider choice I may have gone for something completely different. I have a variety of guitars both long and short scale but even though I am a novice to the style this one is a keeper.

django'spooltalent

Hi GJFAN,

Do you live in Vancouver, I think I tried that D-Hole at the Rufus guitar shop in kits.

I really liked that dg-340 they had though, george's d-hole was pretty good too!

GuitArtMan

GJFAN wrote:

I bought my first gypsy jazz guitar about 7 or 8 months ago. For a trade in and some cash I managed to get a hand made Geoff Struthers Dhole. There was not a good selection around where I live and after playing some Gitanes and the like I spent a little more and got the Struthers. It was really nicely set up.
Some observations:
It is only a 12 fret model and although I do have fairly large hands I feel more comfortable on a it due to hand fatigue after long practise hours. If they had a 14 fret model in stock by the same maker I probably would have bought it instead because you can run out of room pretty fast on a 12 fret model for soloing although there is usually a way around it.
I really liked the Dhole sound wise compared to the Oval but again I was dealing with a limited selection of guitars, some of them not set up very well and uncomfortable to play. With a wider choice I may have gone for something completely different. I have a variety of guitars both long and short scale but even though I am a novice to the style this one is a keeper.

Well I decided on the D hole. There aren't a whole to play around here either, but from the few I have played and listening over and over and over to videos (I know, not the best way to judge) I find the tone of the D hole just a little sweeter to my ears. Mine will be the long scale and 14 fret however, as that seems to be the norm these days. I am a little concerned as unlike you I have small hands. I've been getting nervous as watching the videos of some of the players I see them thumb wrapping. That aint gonna happen with me, I can't even thumb wrap on a 1 5/8" nut, I can't imagine trying to thumb wrap on a 1 3/4" nut. I also see many of the players making use of being double jointed. This has been another source of frustration in the past as there are certain chord voicings you just can't play if your fingers don't bend backwards - mine don't.

I've got 2 - 3 weeks while the guitar is being set up. Mean while I'll be practicing on my Taylor 314 trying to get my right hand right!

Sweet looking guitar btw.

GJFAN

django'spooltalent
That Dhole at Rufus be the one. They gave me a good trade on a guitar I had not played in a few years so I spent the extra few hundred bucks. I think at the time they only had one other oval and maybe a lefty. I don't know much about the maker although I have played one of his dreadnought acoustics that had really good tone. Anyway it has worked out really well all I did was bump the string gauge up to an 11 and it was good to go complete with Hardshell case. Like I say more selection maybe would have meant a different choice but it has come along quite nicely with the higher string gauge, no buzz's rattles or anything like some of the other ones I tried. Still quite a novice at the style though maybe in a few years I will be ready for an oval hole.

GuitArtMan
Congratulations man. It is always odd buying a guitar when you don't play in that style as I found out.Even though I have played a number of years gypsy jazz is brand new to me. Don't worry about small thumbs and hands there is usually a way around it. Good luck on your journey through a great musical style.

GuitArtMan

GJFAN wrote:

django'spooltalent
That Dhole at Rufus be the one. They gave me a good trade on a guitar I had not played in a few years so I spent the extra few hundred bucks. I think at the time they only had one other oval and maybe a lefty. I don't know much about the maker although I have played one of his dreadnought acoustics that had really good tone. Anyway it has worked out really well all I did was bump the string gauge up to an 11 and it was good to go complete with Hardshell case. Like I say more selection maybe would have meant a different choice but it has come along quite nicely with the higher string gauge, no buzz's rattles or anything like some of the other ones I tried. Still quite a novice at the style though maybe in a few years I will be ready for an oval hole.

GuitArtMan
Congratulations man. It is always odd buying a guitar when you don't play in that style as I found out.Even though I have played a number of years gypsy jazz is brand new to me. Don't worry about small thumbs and hands there is usually a way around it. Good luck on your journey through a great musical style.

Well, Django only had the use of two fingers and it didn't stop him so what' my excuse?

noodlenot

that thumb thing is actually easier than it seems... it used to give me the creeps when i started, but it gets natural with some repetition. now, gypsypicking those fast arpeggios with fluency... that´s a different story...

good luck and congrats on the guitar!

GuitArtMan

noodlenot wrote:

that thumb thing is actually easier than it seems... it used to give me the creeps when i started, but it gets natural with some repetition. now, gypsypicking those fast arpeggios with fluency... that´s a different story...

good luck and congrats on the guitar!

Well in my case even thumb wrapping on a Fender style (1 5/8') nut is all but impossible. When I wrap my thumb around the grab the low E string, it pulls my hand so far out of position I just can't do anything else. Chording, riffing, next to impossible.