Playin' it Loud...

Chad

I have been learning only by playing with others on a regular basis, how loud works. Jons point about the sustain of the chords is very important as is just getting the pompe right. It is always interesting and frustrating to play with rock and rollers whose idea of Pompe has sorely missed the boat... I generally put down my guitar then and go find a beer and or a conversation. The "Wall of Wood" sound is not my cup of tea. I want to hear.
Chad

djangology

i personally never have any problem whatsoever playing over people, no matter how hard they whack their guitars. i think it depends on how you play. i agree with Michaels last statement in that we all need to acknowledge that actual gypsy players play loudly without regard, which explains why they developed such a loud picking technique, but that it is also EXTREMELY important to acknowledge that gadjos are sensitive creatures and you should play very quietly around them, mostly because they don't use rest stroke properly.

ViejoVato

Loud playing ...
I'm guilty ... along with not remembering the chord progression. It is very hard for most people who are just beginning to play music in a group setting to be able to actually 'hear' themselves. The tendency is to put the right-side brain in gear to try and hear yourself and then you usually lose the left-side connection and then lose your place or completely drop out of rhythm. So one generally just 'chuggs' ahead and hope that it's OK.

I'm getting better.. the best siutuation is a teacher who can convince you that it's important to play Le Pomp at high and low levels at the same speed (slow through fast) and still make it 'swing'. I have found that a metronome is a good 'devil's advocate' ... can't fool 'em ... you have to get steady on the rhythm and learn to listen.... thanks Tom... for all the help ...

C'est Chaud ...
viejovato

Jack

TedGottsegen wrote:

ViejoVato wrote:

I'm getting better.. the best siutuation is a teacher who can convince you that it's important to play Le Pomp at high and low levels at the same speed (slow through fast) and still make it 'swing'.

It's so hard to do, but well worth working because once you get that freedom, you suddenly realize that rhythm guitarist can be just as expressive as solo playing.

Absolutely. The best move I ever made as a musician was deciding to concentrate on rhythm. Letting the other guitar have the solos made us both sound much, much better.

Chad

Absolutely. The best move I ever made as a musician was deciding to concentrate on rhythm. Letting the other guitar have the solos made us both sound much, much better.[/quote]

I used to feel that way but there is some deeper part of me that has played rythym long enough and wants to stretch my legs. I have come up with enough excuses. I am gonna do it.

Chad

djadam

dennis wrote:

personally at a jam session there should be no more than 2 people playing rhythm guitar

I have to respectfully disagree. In fact, from what I understand, Django was known to request more than 2 rhythm players behind him at times. Plus, such a limit is against the spirit of an open jam.

Again, it comes down to whether jams exist to make the best possible music or to provide a resource for people to cut their teeth and meet each other. If you are looking to make the best possible music, then jams are not the way to go. You should get a combo of like-minded individuals together and practice like crazy with those people.

However, I completely agree that it would be nice if more rhythm players in jam situations were considerate of the soloist and would hold back. It's just not reasonable to expect it, unless you are willing to take the initiative at a jam session to respectfully point out to them how they affect the music.

I find that in jam situations, I can often find a tactful way to challange people to play more quietly and then sometimes something magical happens - people start to become more engaged in the overall sound of the music, their faces light up, their smiles return, and the music sounds better... at least for a song or two until the knuckleheads start playing too loud again!

dennis

ya i guess it is a bit harsh to impose only two rhythm guitar players... but at the same time where did u read about django requesting more than 2 guitar players?

i know the story of him complaining to grappelli that he only had 1 rhythm guitar player when he soloed whereas grappelli had 2 ....

jams are definitely there for people to meet eachother and experience eachother's playing but at the same time, the idea of literally having 15 guitar players playing rhythm to me is absurd.. at that point, as i have already stated, no one's even listening to eachother, the guy accross the soloist definitely can't hear what's going on...

in any case , it all comes down to being a good / considerate musician and knowing when to lay out or when to play soft/hard, etc...

if you go to a regular (and a good one) jazz jam session, it's much more organized and less chaotic, not everyone's playing at the same time.... hahaa imagine the guitar player and pianist comping ata the same time , the sax player outlining the chords with arpeggios, and the trumpet player taking a solo... what a nightmare....

D

mitch251

Dennis said

if you go to a regular (and a good one) jazz jam session, it's much more organized and less chaotic, not everyone's playing at the same time.... hahaa imagine the guitar player and pianist comping ata the same time , the sax player outlining the chords with arpeggios, and the trumpet player taking a solo... what a nightmare....

I guess thats what I think as well I am all for having a good time with everyone but this is, (at least thats how I think of it ) ensemble music
I want to hear what other solists are saying, and if they are unamplified
give me a break! I have sat right in front of Fappy playing accoustic and yes he can play loud but I dont think he would feel like playing with 10 knuckleheads blasting rhythm. I know these guys play loud and I agree that the rest stroke method does improve volume, tone and perhaps even your sex life
But I dont think there is any good excuse for not playing with dynamics
And I fear that some of the ra ra ra for get loud or go home is covering
up whats lacking in some peoples playing Control! I promise
to keep working on my volume if some of you will take an honest look
at what you think playing good music with other people is.

Thanks Tom

dennis

picking hard and soft also affects the tone

i was about to mention fapy too, he doesn't pick hard at all, yet when i was at his place, you could the whole room resonate , pretty much because of the rest strokes and a good guitar (he was playing his hodson most of the time).... ritary and stochelo dont pick hard either and their tone is very smooth... ritary was able to cut through 3-4 rhythm guitar players during a jam... later on when others started joining in, his sound just got lost in the mix.... a pity...

then you watch/listen to tchavolo, moreno, the limberger, etc... it's the total opposite a very rough tone, and yes definitely much louder....

i wouldn't say one is better than the other , i like them both and the difference between the two makes things a bit interesting... i don't want to hear a tchavolo-attack over Manoir de mes reves!

nonetheless, i don't think anyone should be forced to pick harder because of 10 guys whipping it away like there;s no tomorrow...

btw rhythm guitar in this style is totally TOTALLY underrated... it's extremely difficult... and being able to do it just "decently" will already work wonders for your soloing technique....

djadam

dennis wrote:

where did u read about django requesting more than 2 guitar players?

Hi Dennis, I'm no expert on Django, but I seem to remember a couple of stories about Django wanting an army of guitarists behind him. Here's one story is from Charles Delaunay's Biography of Django from page 68:

"I'd intended to present a young singer called Ray Leda and had asked Django to get a band together to back her. But she didn't turn up at the rehearsal at Chez Florence. Besides Django, there was Stephane Grappelly, Louis Vola, Nin-Nin, Roger Chaput, and two or three other guitarists whose names I've forgotten. I had a quiet word with Django and persuaded him to limit the number of rhythm guitarists to two."