Patenotte or D-500

Elliot

Whether 'tis nobler to acquire a good guitar immediately, or study and save for a 254, 256, or even a 260?

What would you do? I even heard someone say they liked their Gitane better, so I really don't know what to do, and I want to have my guitar for at least 5-7 years before trading up....

Thanks!

a

if you want to set up the gitane with a higher bridge (which, inevitably you'll end up doing if you want get "the sound" and get rid of the buzz), and also want to maintain any kind of intonation past the tenth fret, go with the other guitar. or, save some dough and get something of a higher quality. have you checked out the dell arte pigalle?

Elliot

Thank you for the reply, and apologies to anyone tired of this kind of post!

I tried out two of them, and didn't like them. I tended to agree - as limited as my experience is - with what was either Guitar Player or Guitar Buyer's review that described it as an 'Gypsyized' but American guitar. They even rated the Saga higher, describing it as 'bubbly'. I actually get somewhat bummed at barely even being able to feed off the bottom at gypsyguitars.com, unless I start selling off my Strat and amps.

BTW, is being listed at gypsyguitars.com an assurance of quality? Or is it a 'let the buyer beware' dog pound over there? I'd really rather not base my decision on the greater chance of getting a half decent guitar from a factory, than trying to weigh the chances of getting a bad Patenotte, which I have heard exist as well. So much comes down to choice of wood, you know? Plus the idea of spending over $600 on a guitar sight unseen appalls me, which I suppose I need to get over....

If I bought a Saga Gitane and did all the bridge ad tailpiece replacing, would there still be intonation problems? Yikes.

a

the gitane really sounds great when you throw a dupont bridge on, but the intonation really suffers- so badly that i've had trouble transposing solos that go up past the tenth fret. i think the pigalle is the same thing as the gitane, but with a correct bridge and neck pitch (i'm not totally sure). if i had to start from scratch, i'd either go for something like the pigalle, something like:

http://www.manouche-guitars.com/home.htm

or a nicer guitar.

Jack

The newer Pigalles seem pretty nice-much better than the Gitanes, I think, especially the neck (it's a DellArte neck). Elliot, you might think about ordering only from someplace that will let you return a guitar within a certain window-that way you won't have to worry about the 'sight-unseen' problem. Elderly Instruments has an easy return/tryout policy. (You do pay the shipping, though.)

Good luck,
Jack.

Bob Holo

Both the Patennote and the Gitane have decent intonation with actions that are near their intended height but both have "non-standard" bridges and people tend to replace them... and when they do that they often take the opportunity to expirament with different actions. Unless you have a compensated bridge you will have intonation problems as you change the height of the bridge significantly (IE< not the compensation that is a function of the scale length, but compensation per string that is a function of the inter-relation of the strings at that scale length)

One thing to consider is the scale lengths of the Patennote and Gitane. I'm not sure about the comparisons for D-Holes (which is what you're talking about with a Gitane 500) so I don't know if you're doing an apples-to-apples comparison - but for the Petit Bouche models, the Patennote scale lengths I've seen are shorter than standard and for the Gitanes the scale lengths of the guitars I've seen are longer than standard so if "feel" is important to you - you might want to decide if you like longish or shortish fretboards.

My personal opinion? I've played a handful lof Gitane John Jorgenson 300s and they were all ridiculously good and can be had for ~$1,000 if you really look around. Maybe I just played a handful of good ones by coincidence, but I don't think so. My friend Hyung's JJ-model is gobstopping - just flat wonderful - I would trade him my Dell Arte for it but I doubt he'd make that trade despite the fact that my DA's price was >2x. As with all guitars - each is unique so play before you buy - but I can tell you this. If you can get your hands on a "good" JJ300, you will have it till someone inherits it from you.

Elliot

Thanks again for your extremely intelligent and well informed reponse(s).

I suppose I should really be going for a petite bouche, since I love to play lead, it looks like it is a prerequisite, and I'm at an "If Tchavolo eats a banana, then I eat a banana" stage of development. Besides, everyone else seems to have one as well.

I'm sure the JJ D-300 would make just about anyone happy, and looks like it is very comparable in quality to the Manouche Modele Jazz, which I'd bet would be selling for the same price here in the US if there was an outlet, since the msrp for the two is practically identical. So upon re-evaluation I guess it will end up a choice between a JJ, the Jazz, or the new DG-310 Lulo model, which I am anxiously waiting to hear about. From what I hear at this point any of those would be a good choice as far as a keeper quality instrument goes - if anyone can find a preference for any of those three, please let me and the rest of the forum know.

In the meantime it's gonna be "Goodbye Stratocaster"...lol...

Carter O`Brien

A very interesting discussion, as I used to own a D-500, and I recently was in a store where I got a chance to try a Pigalle, a Jorgenson D300, and a DG-255.

IMO, and based of course on that small sampling, the Pigalle blew the Gitanes out of the water.

Gitanes to my ears sound good for flat top guitars, but they don't have that special gypsy sound that the Pigalle had.

The Pigalle felt smoother and had that snappy punch, the Gitanes to my ears just don't have a very complex tone.

FWIW, I also have an older Savillano Dell Arte and a Dupont (both D holes), and the Pigalle was definitely not as toneful as the Dupont, but I thought it gave the Savillano a run for the money. From what I've read, it sounds like this might have been an above-average Pigalle.

Elliot

...okay, the Pigalle is back in contention. In fact, the local store here has one on order, and at the rate I'm going, I'll probably end up buying the first guitar that sounds authentic to me that I can get in my hands! I like the idea that Saga did the body, since the other Dell'Artes I tried just seemed to be flat tops with bridges and funny holes, and a guitar from England would probably cost too much once import duty is added on, not to mention passing the bomb squad at customs, who apparently can tear anything apart, even a guitar with impunity, with no recourse for me. Plus the opinions on Patenottes seem to be all over the place, which makes me hesitant.

But I'm getting good vibes from the DG-310, which they told me at Saga should be shipping "in a month or so". Iif Lulo Reinhardt is eating that banana, I guess it would be fine for me as well - as soon as I or someone else can compare it to a JJ-300, that is. :roll:

Bachelorno2

Hi! I play a Gitane D500 and so far havent had any problems with it. It doesn't suffer from any of the string buzz or bad intonation, the action is slightly less than 3mm for the twelve fret and to my ears, the sound is definitely there. I haven't tampered with it since I brought from the shop, I find the wide neck and the length to be most agreeable! It's certainly a good guitar to play.

Elliot

I'm glad to hear that, because all I know is basically what I've read in forums.

This, for instance -

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum35/HTML/000173.html