Replacement pickup, for bronze strings

Iainiain

Hi

Can anyone suggest a pickup that'd replace a neck magnetic one and would work with bronze strings, to amplify an archtop as an "acoustic" sound (i.e. to modify a Jazz archtop into, essentially, an amplifies acoustic, into a PA)?
I noticed here mention of a Benedetto (http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/pic ... up-s6.html). Would that be what I'm after? if so, I don't suppose anyone is selling one here(?)
If not, can anyone suggest an alternative?

I'm thinking that it'd be good to simply replace the extant pickup in my Hagstrom (http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Ba ... y-Matt/GTG) and use it as an acoustic, for gigs. If pickups like the Baggs M1A work for round-hole flat-tops then wouldn't something similar function in an archtop, via the vol and tone controls already fitted? Or am I missing something fundamental, that'd prevent me from managing this?

I'd greatly prefer that to retro-fitting something along the lines of the K&K archtop pickup, necessitating an external pr-amp and work on the guitar etc.

Cheers. Thanks, in advance, for any advice.

martin b

Well, Iain, you've hit upon something that's bothered me for a long while. Whereas there are a number of magnetic pickups offered for round-hole flat-top guitars that are designed to give a clean "acoustic" sound, there are no equivalent products available it seems for acoustic archtops, or for gypsy guitars for that matter. In this world, it's all about the vintage tone of P90s, PAFs, Dearmonds and Stimers; understandably, those are classic sounds and what the vast majority of players want. But that's a different aesthetic, and it seems to me that there's a gap in the market here.
However, a larger factor in the "vintage" sound is tube amp breakup. A Dearmond or Stimer into an acoustic amp or PA can be a very usable sound.
I also think the bronze string imbalance thing is overstated. I used an Epiphone with a Dearmond and bronze strings for years, with a piece of velvet under the bass side, and the balance was fine.

So my advice would be: first try bronze strings on your guitar as is, into a PA, and adjust the pickup until the balance is as good as it can be. How's that? Are the bronzes nice unplugged? How do they feel? How's it sound through the PA? How's the string balance? If the pickup seems a bit strident, turn the guitar volume down a bit (astonishing how few guitarists try this). Your guitar isn't really designed with this in mind, so you need to be sure you're barking up the right tree before you start messing with pickups.
Only when you're sure you love everything about it except the pickup, should you look into replacement. A Benedetto I think is not for you, more of a smooth, round jazz tone. You could try fitting a Baggs M1 into the rout, but you'll need a mallet; I would be pessimistic.
I would take a look at Krivo pickups, the closest I've seen to an "acousticy" magnetic for non-roundholes.
But be sure it's the right guitar for the job first.

Iainiain

Thanks for the reply, Martin. Interesting stuff.

I agree that it seems odd there's not a direct equivalent of the round-hole guitars soundhole pickups. surely it'd be easy for a manufacturer to modify one, to fit an archtop (and pre-amp batteries could be hidden under the scratchplate, for example.

I'll try all that you suggest and see how I get on; similarly, I'll look into the Krivo, as you suggest.
I know - as you say - that it's arguably me trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but I like the unplugged tone and feel of an archtop and think it could be really cool for "unplugged" gigs I do with some of my bands, to have an archtop accompany the singers' flat-top guitars.
Worth a try, anyway, eh?

Cheers, thanks again.

Iainiain

Actually, this http://www.shadow-electronics.com/viewp ... id=&id=219 looks promising.
Seems like it could fit to the guitar with no need to change anything already on the instrument, so it could be an acoustic, with bronze strings (via this pickup and output) and/or a Jazz archtop, with nickel strings (via the extant pickup/output).

I'd hope this must work just as well for any archtop as it would for a Maccaferri(?)

Again, any thoughts/opinions would be welcome.

Cheers.

martin b

This pickup would appear to be Shadow's version of an M1, give or take, and maybe it's great, but the problem for you with all of these is that they are about 3 inches deep, so would only fit, if at all, if you removed your pickup and could drop them into the hole. Inelegant at best. Regarding an archtop-specific version of this type of pickup, I think ultimately the archtop market is tiny compared to the flat-top one, and the vast majority of players are happy with the traditional set up. I doubt the cost of R&D could be justified.
Also, what better sound do we actually want from an archtop? I personally don't like the Baggs M1 for example, to me it has that ubiquitous modern "spingley-spangley" electro-acoustic sound, harsh and scooped in the midrange. Archtop tone is ALL about the midrange, so I'm not sure what you would achieve even if you could retrofit one.
One more thing I would say is, don't get too stuck on bronze strings, they're not necessarily the answer. Heavy gauge is more important, and maybe try flatwounds. Experiment.
Best of luck!

flip-guitar

Martin, I think you are talking about the soundhole pickup that appears in a pop-up window on the link. The actual link shows Shadow's maccaferri style pickup that fits under the ends of the floating bridge.

Iainiain

Yes, it's the Maccaferi one I'm referring to. Had forgotten to mention the pop-up window. Sorry about that.

So, any thoughts on using the Macca one? Seems like a good idea to me - d'you agree?

Cheers.

MarkA

On my '47 Epiphone Blackstone I switched to a Krivo Djangobucker from a Pick Up The World archtop pickup and have been very pleased. Had some trouble getting it to stay put for a long gig with the putty, so I had my luthier attach it to the pickguard (if anyone out there really loves the Pick Up the World, let me know, I have one with little use and their preamp for sale). Good luck!

Iainiain

Thanks again. More to think about.

martin b

Ah yes, I did indeed make that mistake, my apologies. That idea may suit you very well, and of course it could be wired to a blender control so you are not tied to either/or, but can mix to taste. A few guitar manufacturers offer this idea, Yamaha for one, so maybe you could try something out in a store.
I must admit I have a favourite setting for piezo pickups, which is "off", but it's worth checking out. There are other similar pickups.

Mark, interesting that you've switched to a Krivo from a PUTW. I've tried numerous contact systems over the years and never had any luck with anything. I can't under stand how anyone can be using them in what I would consider real world situations, ie bars, clubs, restaurants etc. And even as you say, putty!
Maybe it's fine, but how could you relax on a pub gig knowing that you're dependent on putty?

Iainiain

Well, I've just ordered one of those Shadow Nanoflex pickups, so I'll let you know how it sounds as and when it's on the guitar and I've gigged it.

Thanks again for all the input.