Hello, some noob questions!

jazznoob

Hi, how are you? Glad to be in the forum

I have a couple of questions and i think you'll be able to help me.

I've been playing for more than 10 years, mostly rock and blues (with the electric guitar). Also, for the last 4 years or so i ve been workin towars getting my degree in classical guitar.

Nowadays, im working with this dude that sings and i use my classical guitar (not a very good one) trough a mic.

Here is the thing: I wanna learn this style (gypsy jazz) and i also need a new guitar for playing live.

If i buy something like a Godin (nylon strings), do you think it could "work" to learn gypsy as well? What about a good classical guitar?

I know it wouldnt be optimal, but i guess that what i really want to know is if you can work in getting the right gypsy sound and technique with a classical/nylon strings guitar.

Thanks, i appreciate!

Jazzaferri

Errrr..in a word ...... no

That doesnt mean you cant play GJ on nylon. You just cant quite get that sound.

B25Gib

Hi JNoob!
..............Congrats on your journey getting a degree in classical guitar. You will have a good foundation in classical harmony. GJ rhythm can be basically learned as a beginner on a nylon string guitar but it will not produce the fundamental rhythm "pump" or lead sound of this style. I'm assuming that your vocalist is singing some "swing" style songs? Nylon string guitar in THIS style is more solo oriented when used with backup GJ guitars. If you are the only guitarist now, I think you should consider buying a DVD video in this style as the chord shapes and progressions are so different from what you are probably familiar with.
.............Denis Chang's DVD "JAZZ MANOUCHE" - The Art Of Accompaniment would be a good resource. Two hours, and covers a solid foundation in this style. However it is very visual and "ear" oriented which is the style that the young players in this style in Europe were taught. It is available on this site at $49.95 A very good investment for you to learn the RHYTHM FOUNDATION of the Genre! Good Luck!
.............Let us know how your progress!
............ Jam on, Rocky

FrankieDetergent

i'm not sure if u like how a gj guitar sounds like. really. i think it's more jazz.. less full, more honky, less warm.
if there are on the net some fragments of gypsy jazz guitar lessons, listen to how they sound when they play open strings (for u to tune). try to put aside what the guys play and listen only for the guitar sound.
not sure about the naturalness of this recording but listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6KJocTtxFs
if i were you i would buy some gypsy jazz strings, and try them on your guitars, because there's a big difference between nylon strings and thin steal strings (& silver wounded). this with a big thick pick and the proper picking i think it could even be better than a gypsy jazz guitar that u can afford.
the shape of the gj guitar is not that different from an acoustic one (there's no meaningful difference). and at least i can use the gypsy picking technique on any guitar type. even on an electric guitar. so try the strings first imo.

klaatu

NO, I wouldn't try gypsy jazz strings on your nylon string guitar. The string tension of steel strings is too high for a classical guitar. You are liable to do some serious damage.

As to your question, yes, you can play gypsy jazz on a nylon string guitar. I've seen a number of people do it. You can learn and practice all of the techniques and decide of you like it enough to invest in a proper GJ guitar someday. You will, however, never get THE characteristic sound, which is highly dependent on the combination of guitar, strings, and pick, in addition to the technique.

Michael Bauer

First, do not put steel strings on a nylon string guitar! They aren't braced for it, and you'll more than likely destroy the guitar sooner rather than later.

Second, I've heard people get a great sound in gypsy jazz on nylon strings. Rafael Fays plays nylon strings exclusively these days, and...uh...I don't think anyone would argue that he's not a tremendous player. Ottorino Galli of Germany, though mainly a rhythm player, gets a great sound on a nylon string Selmer copy. I've heard him live, and thought his rhythm sound was just terrific, and very hard to distinguish from a steel string rhythm sound...just a bit softer. Alfonso Ponticelli plays nylon strings through entire shows sometimes, and sounds great. I have two nylon string gypsy jazz guitars, on by Rodrigo Shopis, and one by J.P. Favino, and while they are very different, both have wonderful sounds! They won't sound exactly like a steel string guitar, and you'll need to use a thinner pick (say 1.5 to 2 mm) than on a regular steel string guitar to get the best sound. My Favino has a quirky, vintage sound (think flamenco meets gypsy jazz), is every bit as loud as a steel string (believe it!). There's a video of Jeff Raidich playing my Favino at a jam at Django in June. You can listen and hear for yourself what it sounds like. I'll try to find a link to it, but it's on this forum somewhere. There's nothing wrong with having your own sound, and while a Godin isn't going to be as loud or as gypsy as the Favino, so what? Play what makes you comfortable now, and when you're ready to move to a steel string, do it. If you decide to stay with nylon, trust me, you can sound great with enough practice! And in this orthodox world of gypsy jazz, you'll sound unique, which could be a good thing.

So there you have the contrarian view.

jazznoob

Wow, im really grateful, thanks everybody.

I imagine it wouldnt be optimal using a classical guitar, but its good to know it "could" work.

What i find amazing of this style (gypsy jazz) is that the rhytm sounds really "dry", almost percussive. But the lead playing has some characteristics that (to me) are really close to the sound of nylon strings. Ive listening to Stochelo a lot and he really has a "mellow" dark tone. Its really awesome.

I also like the style of Oscar Aleman (im from Argentina too, now you understand why my english sucks lol). It doesnt sound like traditional gypsy (well, for me at least), but he had and incredible tone and feel.

So far ive tried lots of picks, but i really like the dunlop delrin 2mm.

Michael Bauer

Here's the link. Jeff is the second soloist, but you can hear his rhythm playing throughout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqXvXzhC ... r_embedded

Passacaglia

Michael Bauer wrote:

Here's the link. Jeff is the second soloist, but you can hear his rhythm playing throughout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqXvXzhC ... r_embedded

Oh, man, Michael, thanks for the link (and thanks, Eddy, for recording this!). This is one sweet duo! Your guitar sounds fantastic, Michael!

Cheers!

Paul

Archtop Eddy

You're welcome Paul.

Here's another YouTube clip with two fellas playing nylon string guitars. One fellow is using a pick, the other his fingers, and a third with a steel string guitar. NONE are using a traditional Gypsy jazz Maccaferri or Selmer type guitar, they're playing a Wes Mongomery tune, and yet I don't think you can argue that they don't have a contemporary Gypsy Jazz sound.

That may just be my ears however. After all, I'm the guy who likes to practice on a plastic Mac G-40 guitar! Ha!

(Thanks, Tom MacFarlane -- for the vid link) AE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9sDparkt9SM

Jazzaferri

One thing you can do that will make your classical guitar sound less like a nylon string classic guitar is to put a set of Thomastic Infeld classic steel strings on. I use them on my classic guitar and I can play with either fingers or pick. Juststrings.com has the best prices I have seen for them. The total tension is about 90 lbs which is up at the high range for classic guitar but not like gj steings which run around 120 to 130 lbs.