Differences in right hand attack - Hono, Stochelo, Nous'che

Passacaglia

I happened upon Christian van Hemert's taste of the upcoming rhythm course with Nous'che - look from 1:39 on, for a bit - (I ended up joining, really looking forward to it).

The right hand of these guys - space limitations precluded my including Denis in the subject line, but I will here - blows me away. And they are all perceptively different, which is of course as it should be.

Comparing these guys - I'm drawing from Denis, directly, and from seeing various clips on youtube, and live, in person; Hono, from Denis's DC GJ site; Stochelo, from the "In the Style" DVD; and Nous'che, from Christian's preview.

Not quite sure how to say this, but I would die for Nous'che's rhythm. Looking at his right hand, I see this lightning-fast flick on 1-3, that literally seems to fling his (relaxed) hand up for 2-4. I know Denis talks about this a lot, that 1-3 can't be "dead," so that effort kind of needs to bring the wrist back for the percussive beats, but I've just not run across anything like this before. Hono, it seems to me, uses an absolute economy of muscle (as they all do), but there's still a kind of micro-muscular thing to me, in his right hand, that gives his sound this power, and "carré" quality....though I know this isn't Hono, I think this "Alsacian" effect is really pronounced on Bireli's 15, opening song, Douce Ambiance (I think it was Denis who pointed this up, somewhere on the forum).

I remember from his book that Michael writes of a "Dutch" sound as a kind of "whooshing" variant of the "Alsacian" sound, which I see and hear, watching Stochelo and Nous'che.

But between Stochelo and Nous'che, I see a perceptible difference in right hand technique...to me, Stochelo has a more pronounced separation between his upstroke and downstroke on 1-3; whereas Nous'che's flick of the wrist results in an upstroke style that sounds almost absent of an upstroke, it's so fast....yes?

I know that here, I'm looking at only one song as an example - and have a bunch of clips from youtube in which to try and discern Nous'che's style across other songs. I also know this is a rambling post. Basically - anyone else see this, this almost impossibly fast wrist flick on Nous'che's work (at least in Christian's preview, on Coquette), which differs from Stochelo, as taught on Denis's "in the style of" DVD?

Thanks,

Paul

Passacaglia

Sorry, can't edit the post, for some reason. While we're at it - says a guy who's having a tough time getting used to using the point of his Big City 1.8 for rhythm playing - anyone know what pick Nous'che's using in the referenced clip? Is that just a simple Dunlop, and is he, too, using the round edge, in lieu of a point-attack?

Passacaglia

Sorry, not sure why I'm unable to edit the posts (as opposed to doing a new one), but is Nous'che actually muting the upstroke, on this clip? I recall Stochelo refers to a ghost-stroke, an unvoiced stroke...my presumption, esp. from learning from Hono, is that both the up and down are voiced for beats 1-3; voiced, if only very quickly. I wonder here if Nous'che actually does a muted up, with voiced down?, for his beats 1-3?

Jazzaferri

Paul

I just did a listen to several cuts from caravan and djangologists cds

Depending on the tune I hear Nousche doing all 3 beat 1/3 rhythms. Ghost stroke no upstroke and soundd upstroke. As one of the best rhythm players on the planet I am ot surprised bynhis using the technique that best fits the feel they want for a particular tune.

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

Paul

I just did a listen to several cuts from caravan and djangologists cds

Depending on the tune I hear Nousche doing all 3 beat 1/3 rhythms. Ghost stroke no upstroke and soundd upstroke. As one of the best rhythm players on the planet I am ot surprised bynhis using the technique that best fits the feel they want for a particular tune.

Oh, OK, Jay, I originally misread your post. Gotcha. This Coquette clip, the way in which he accomplishes an upstroke - ghosted or not? - is pretty wild, IMO. Very different from the "whooshing" I see Stochelo do, a kind of dragging the pick across the strings, tip downward.