Bluegrass to Gypsy Transition

djangolin

Okay I've downloaded all of John's Gypsy Mandolin Lessons and I'm starting to work through them. I'm curious in hearing from those who've made this journey already - what are some things a bluegrass mandolin player needs to change or let go of in order to play Gypsy style, i.e. what bluegrass techniques will be impediments to the new style? Also curious about how straight Gypsy stuff differs from Grisman's interpretation of the Django repertoire?

Mark

djangolin

In reading further, I see that some of the answers to my questions are contained in the opening welcome thread of this forum section. However, John (or others) I'd also be curious if you think the Gypsy playing style/techniques have anything which could be successfully incorporated in a bluegrass setting?

jmcgann

Well, my opinion is that you need to decide on which end of the technique spectrum you want to shoot for. You can work at adapting the "Gypsy Picking" rules of never ever change strings with an upstroke; or you can adapt that idea when it is convienient, or you can say the hell with it and "innovate", since as far as I am aware there is no real established tradition of mandolin playing in the Gypsy Jazz idiom.

Personally, I like the punchy downstroke sound and use it a fair amount, but there are some technical details about how the guitar lines lie on the mando fingerboard that make me think "gee, this is almost like a different instrument" :roll: The other thing is that no fiddlers really try and phrase their bow strokes like the Django pick strokes, so maybe it is not "an issue".

I am not going for 100% "authentic" in the way that fulltime Manouche players are, so sue me. I am a honky from the East Coast, USA. I try and play in the spirit of the music as I feel it, and if I play an upstroke in the wrong place, ah well...I'm not a Gypsy and will never be one, so why worry? Either I am playing somebody's idea of good, expressive music, or not.

I don't think of bluegrass AT ALL when I play jazz on the mandolin- the mindset for the music, to me, is totally different. Yes, you can use doubles stops and tremolo, but you know Bill Monroe licks are just gonna sound like a third arm IMHO. I try to play with ZERO bluegrass accent when I play jazz on any instrument. That's just me, people should do what they want...

JeePee

jmcgann wrote:

there are some technical details about how the guitar lines lie on the mando fingerboard that make me think "gee, this is almost like a different instrument" :roll: The other thing is that no fiddlers really try and phrase their bow strokes like the Django pick strokes, so maybe it is not "an issue".

Right !
For me, thinking mandolin is a violin played as a guitar is another mistake! And mandolin is not a "little guitar" !
We have to make sound that "like a mandolin"! But some licks must be played "a la manouche": for exemple, triplets: down stroke on each first note... Some "sweeps" have a "good sound" on mandolin...
Try, try, try... and you 'll find the good way...
8)

MichaelHorowitz

The huge irony here is that guitarists got the rest stroke technique from mandolinists!

there is evidence that Django and Baro Ferret studied right hand technique with Poulette Castro, a Gitan bandurria player. If you look at the old Italian classical mando books they all tell you to play everything exactly like the Gypsy Picking book.


I guess Bill Monroe changed all that....there must some European classical players who still play with the rest stroke technique. Does anyone know?




See:

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<**** valign="top"> eBook:
The Bickford Mandolin Method

For mandolinists attempting to play Gypsy jazz, this book is the
closest thing youll get to Gypsy Picking
for mandolin. Additionaly, Bickford takes you from the basics of
reading music to some very advanced mandolin duets and solo pieces.

Price: $8.00
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eBook:
The Bickford Mandolin Method - Volume 2



This is the second volume of the celebrated Bickford Mandolin
Method. An excellent way to improve your rest stroke picking technique
(i.e. Gypsy
Picking) on the mandolin.



Price: $10.00
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eBook:
33 Special Studies for the Mandolin



These 33 studies were written by the mandolin virtuoso G. L.
Lansing. They are intended as a supplement to his edition of the
Christofaro Method for the Mandolin. 36 pages.



Price: $5.00
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eBook:
Christofaro Method for Mandolin



The Christofaro Method (sic) is one of the most revered classical
mandolin methods ever published. 72 pages.



Price: $5.00
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Jim Bryan

This coming from an avid amateur, who's gone through the same process. Swing/gypsy tunes were always in the back of my mind, while I was playing through a series of local Bluegrass bands for about 12 years. Had a couple kids, dropped out of the scene awhile. Some gypsy jazz jams started up, I started going, that turned into a 5-piece semi-regular combo. Playing bluegrass/fiddle tunes any more seem like a guilty pleasure, but don't have that same interest for me. Been focusing on gypsy for about 3 years now.

I'm far from a gypsy player -- but the main changes from bluegrass seem to be (1) swing it (2) moving away from I IV V (3) hearing the subtleties in a whole different/more sophisticated way. Playing less but more tastefully.

We can have more of a discussion, but this all shades into the other topics on the board! I transcribe when I can from the Big Boy players, transcribe solos that knock me out from other instruments, do the lessons from McGann and on Mando Cafe, learn alot of heads, play w/ my friends as much as possible! Jim