Rhythm Tempos at 250 bpm and higher

arjr

For people here who play with the traditional rhythm is it easy for you
to play at tempos 250 and higher. My technique tends to get sloppy and
I sound like I'm galloping rather then swinging the rhythm.

Is it easier to play at these speeds with just a down stroke?


Angelo

Jazzaferri

I am confused ....GJ rhythm is usually played with downstrokes.

iMO you should not play any faster than you can play correctly ..... Otherwise you are practising playing incorrectly or sloppily or with the wrong articulation :shock:

arjr

I wasn't clear as I wrote my post in a rush....sorry.

Just wondering if people here on this forum
have a hard time adding that little upstroke on beats 1 and 3 when
playing at faster tempos.
When I get above 250 bpm the upstroke on beats 1 and 3 get a little hard to to do.

Is it easier to play rhythm at those faster tempos with just downstrokes
on all beats?

murillo

My rhythmstyle is downstrokes only, but when I play really high tempo songs like dark eyes I only hit the thre lower (bass) strings. This way the movement is much smaller and easier to control. It dosent sound bad at all.

mobreau

It should be easy to play at any tempo in theory. It is all about complete relaxation, especially in the shoulders. I find the weight of your hand should in someways be making your wrist act like some sort of pendulum. This in itself takes the effort out of the rest of the arm. It also mean an upstroke can be incorporated if you want it to be but it is more of an accent than a stroke. You will notice this in a lot of the french guys for instance, Matieu Chatelain springs to mind obviously. Infact Matieu often mentioned concentrating on a relaxation in the shoulders and almost a bounce coming from them, but that is hard to explain. You need to see it really. Also concentrate on other areas of your body, especially your legs. You will find you may really be tensing some leg muscels even though you now have your shoulders relaxed! this will effect you just as badly. And hey! I still do these things from time to time when i feel the pressures on! but it's all a learning curve in a psychological way aswell....It's real fun playing fast when you at ease, but just as much fun grooving real slow too..

mobreau

Excuse spelling errors, I just write and don't check! As long as I get the point across eh?

Passacaglia

mobreau wrote:

It should be easy to play at any tempo in theory. It is all about complete relaxation, especially in the shoulders. I find the weight of your hand should in someways be making your wrist act like some sort of pendulum. This in itself takes the effort out of the rest of the arm. It also mean an upstroke can be incorporated if you want it to be but it is more of an accent than a stroke. You will notice this in a lot of the french guys for instance, Matieu Chatelain springs to mind obviously. Infact Matieu often mentioned concentrating on a relaxation in the shoulders and almost a bounce coming from them, but that is hard to explain. You need to see it really. Also concentrate on other areas of your body, especially your legs. You will find you may really be tensing some leg muscels even though you now have your shoulders relaxed! this will effect you just as badly. And hey! I still do these things from time to time when i feel the pressures on! but it's all a learning curve in a psychological way aswell....It's real fun playing fast when you at ease, but just as much fun grooving real slow too..

+1 for this post, excellent, mobreau. All kinds of "helper" muscles like to join the fray, I've found - in particular, what mobreau says, shoulders and legs. If have any weak spots or chronic stuff, it can be difficult to consciously let go, in my experience. I've some thoracic nerve damage on the right side, and a winged scapula, so a bunch of upper back and shoulder muscles LOVE to lend a hand...and it hurts like hell if I allow them to do this.

So, yes, I find it critical to do what Mobreau says. At tempo, I either am able to let all but the muscles needed go, or slow down to the point where I can. Absolutely critical, in my opinion, and it goes for all playing....not so easy, I find,because acquired tensions and habits over a lifetime can be insidious, and insistent, as well.

If you or anyone have not looked into Alexander Technique, I highly recommend a consideration. Good stuff for performers.

Jazzaferri

I don't always use the upstroke as to me it is a feel that goes better with certain songs. And kinda gets lost at really high tempos

At really fast tempos I might use it on beat one of a bar if at all and as it is not an extra motion I dont find it difficult to add in.

arjr

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I do tense up
when I get above 240-250 bpm. That maybe one of the
reasons why my sound/technique suffers once I reach those tempos
I'll try and pay more attention to where I tense up and slowly
build up speed when I practice.


Angelo

MichaelHorowitz

arjr wrote:

For people here who play with the traditional rhythm is it easy for you
to play at tempos 250 and higher. My technique tends to get sloppy and
I sound like I'm galloping rather then swinging the rhythm.

Is it easier to play at these speeds with just a down stroke?


Angelo

I played exclusively with the upstroke for a decade, even at fast tempos. Like others said, you need to be very relaxed and also the upstroke motion has to be very small and subtle. It sounds great when you do it correctly as the upstroke creates the illusion of a ride cymbal which totally swings. But with that said, I do sometimes switch to all down strokes when playing at the fastest tempos as it can be a bit cleaner, especially when playing with others.

When you're learning it's probably best to pick one way and really master that first. Otherwise you'll probably never get very good at any given method of rhythm playing.

good luck!


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arjr

Thanks Michael!!