Keeping up with Chord Changes (First Post, Hello all!)

jazzyclimber

Hey guys!

This is my first post on this discussion board so I would like to start off by saying hello to everyone on here! I am new to gypsy jazz, just bought my first gypsy guitar the other day, and im super excited to start to learn this incredible new style. However, I have some questions to help me get there.

Im starting, as I feel many people do, with the song minor swing. I have played in Jazz bands before and have a pretty sound theory background but I have never really delved into improvisation before because I felt it was always a daunting challenge. Over the past few weeks I have been working on some basic arpeggios and trying to connect them together, as well as starting to focus on the use of guide tones for connecting ideas from chord to chord.

This is where I get hung up; I try to come up with melodic ideas using mainly the chord tones but then loose track of the chord changes which results in me improving mainly over Am and the harmonic minor scale. Any suggestions on how to keep up with the chord changes mentally, as well as be able to solo in a melodic fashion?

Thanks for all the help, I will keep you all updated on my progress!

Jazzaferri

What I suggest to beginners is to work through the song arpeggiating the chords as it seems that you are doing. When you can arp the whole song without thinking in a completely relaxed way, then start by changing the starting chord tone for each arp and then start playing around with the arps rhythmically as well. Final step is to introduce some non chord tones.

It also makes sense to listen to a version you like a lot and copy some of the phrases that you really like. Start to build your own vocabulary so to speak.

Good luck and welcome aboard

Lango-Django

Any suggestions on how to keep up with the chord changes mentally, as well as be able to solo in a melodic fashion?

here's one that works for me, I accidentally discovered it when travelling and no access to backing tracks or Band In A Box, which I had made a habit of practising with

Just play your guitar totally without accompaniment, and by default you'll find you have to pretty much stay right on the chords.

Once you get better at staying right on the chords you can play along with a metronome if you want to, but even that is not necessary to get started... If there are some chord changes that you find you can keep up with mentally a bit slower or faster than others, so what? that's really no biggie at first.

if you keep doing this long enough, you'll find two things:

- you'll start thinking of the changes in arps, instead of strummed chords

- your fingers will mysteriously learn to find the notes you want without your conscious mind having to do the work... Sorta like once you learn to type you can stop thinking about where the letters are on the keyboard and just worry about communicating your thoughts.

(will you still make typographical errors when you type? definitely! Will you still make musical errors when you play? definitely! But WTF, the main thing is to communicate and not sit around worrying OMG I MIGHT MAKE A MISTAKE!!!! If you take that route, then the only safe thing to do is quit typing or playing the guitar or doing anything except sitting in your room worrying that you are going to make a mistake!)

Good luck, and remember--- this is supposed to be fun!

Will

PS Plus I guess, as one of the leaders of the Givone guitar method support group, I would be remiss if I failed to pimp for the Givone method... To continue with the touch-typing analogy, this method teaches you how to find the "home keys" in every position on the fingerboard.

hanear21

One other thing to consider, coming from a fellow beginner. I don't know if I'm alone in this regard, but for whatever reason Minor Swing gives me a lot of trouble when doing improv. Theoretically it's quite simple but I find it hard to play a nice melody even though I know the appropriate theory.

I've had far less trouble with some of these songs:
- All of Me
- Coquette and Daphne (very similar songs)
- Hungaria
- It don't mean a thing

I can even do a better solo in Djangology, which I think theoretically should be much more difficult.

I guess my point is that you might have certain strengths and weaknesses(mine might just be songs with lots of minor chords) that you won't be aware of until you try out different kinds of songs. I was hung up for a while trying to sound good doing Minor Swing, but since I've moved on to other songs I've had more fun, and I find that I am getting better at Minor Swing as well.

I second checking out Givone's book, his 5 forms are really great (especially if you haven't learned your arpeggios yet)

Lango-Django

Ditto what hanear said...

And for some reason, one tune I find particularly easy to jam with is "Embraceable You" , does anyone else like to mess around with that one?

Plus I've come to really enjoy jamming over rhythm changes, and try to do so in every key.

I find with faster tempo numbers I can mentally keep up with the chords up to about 200-220 bpm, anything much more than that and I'm no longer in control of the song but find myself desperately trying to keep up by cranking out a bunch of mindless crap.

So I'm full of awe for all those hot players like the ones at DIJ who keep up effortlessly with those athletic tempos. I don't know if I'll ever be able to do that. but the main thing for me is to try to have some fun instead of obsessing over my limitations.

Jazzaferri

Paradoxically in orde to sound good you have to give up wanting to sound good

You can only play what is in you given the limitations of technique. That means getting ego out of the wy and playing what you CAN play without thinking about it.

hanear21

I think you're absolutely right. The times when I am most happy with my own playing, it's always after the song is done and I think back "Woah did I play that?" You have to get out of your own head in a sense, it's almost zen-like.

Jazzaferri

Not almost....playing well is zen

jazzyclimber

Hey guys,

Thanks a bunch for all of your responses! They have all been really helpful. I have noticed that even within just the past few days of practicing and really focusing on not really thinking while I am playing that I am really a lot better then when I try to think and play. Just kind of let my fingers go where my ears want them to, sort of thing. But damn is that a hard thing to do, or at least train yourself to do.

I feel that it is largely a split brain kind of thing. One side of your brain does all of the talking and computing while the other does all the creative things. You have to try to silence the "mathematical" side of the brain and just let the creative side take over.

Anyway, again thanks for the help! I Will def. take some time in the next few weeks to check out and learn some new GJ standards.

Just to update you guys on my progress, today while playing I was able to play 4 choruses of minor swing and made it sound not so "arpeggio-y" and it was actually pretty awesome! The soloing without the backing tracks is what was really useful because then you actually have to cognitively figure out and hear the chord changes in your head. Thanks again guys!

anthon_74

Keeping up with chord changes has always been a challenge for me, being a rock n roller originally. One thing I found is how important it is to become extremely familiar with where you play each chord 'shape' for any chords in a song. I break the chord shapes into A shape (which stands on top of the G shape); D shape (which stands on top of the C shape); and E shape.

When I approach a new song, the first thing I do is try to play arps for all the changes, playing only ONE shape (I usually start with the E shape since it's based on the E string and easiest to find). then I do an arp playalong using ONLY the A shape; and so on.

THEN - Pick one part of the fretboard and try to arp your way through the song only at that area.

another thing you can do is practice you LICKS ONLY in one shape over a song - like for minor swing, play a short A minor lick over the E minor shaped bar chord at the 5th fret, and THEN play the SAME lick over the D minor using the E minor shape at the 10th fret, and so on.

Another thing I try to do is make my melodic ideas brief so I don't end up being late to the next chord. Try to be EARLY to the next chord, and initially keep your melodic ideas simple and short.

Congratulations on undertaking the awesome SUPER puzzle that is Gypsy Jazz !!

Anthony