Coming very late to this party... I guess?

kevorkazito · February 2013

Just reading posts here now, I never knew of the Givone Method before.

Of the four books available here at Djangobooks.com

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/index.php?sid=13115b22yig70y9ol16t7ndj0c1x3278&app=ecom&ns=prodsearchp&ecom--prodsearch--string=Givone&SUBMIT=Go

is this book:

Daniel Givone La Guitare Manouche

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/Item/daniel_givone_guitare_manouche

The first one to get.

What about the others? I'm still a beginner but quite intrigued by this resource.

beenawhile · February 2013

That makes two of us.

I am sort of the fence as the to Givone Method book and am leaning a bit toward his 25 pieces book.

I have used all sorts of GJ books over the years, but especially like the Nolan licks books. Seems that some feel that Nolan's playing or teaching shouldn't be confused with 'real' gypsy playing, but I have found licks to be excellent exercises in themselves. Very helpful for strengthening fingers and developing my ear and most of his ideas can easily be the basis for your own improvising. I am hoping that one or more of the Givone books would do the same, but perhaps with a new flavor.

I might add, that my overall goal is not so much to become a competent GJ player, but to use this genre and its many great instructional books to aid in becoming a better guitar player in general. I admire a purist approach, but am very much in the hybrid camp for my own playing. That said, I seem to get sucked further and further into conforming - this style does that for you!

anthon_74 · February 2013

I would go with la guitare la manouche, and learn the 5 forms over minor chords, major 6/9, dom7th, and dom7ths in a minor key.

They're great note maps based around chord shapes. Good stuff.

Michael Bauer · February 2013

There are lots of posts on this all over this forum, but here's my two cents:

Book 1: Gypsy Picking, by Michael Horowitz; a must have, which will break down the gypsy picking style very well for you. It's not enough to just know the licks. If you really want to learn this music, you need to learn the proper right-hand technique. If you can get your hands on Aurelien Bouly's videos on gypsy picking (in French), you'll really be hooked up. That video is the best thing I have ever seen on right hand technique in gypsy guitar.

Book 2: Getting into Gypsy Jazz, by Stephane Wrembel; this lays out the various arpeggios visually better than any other source I have found. More a resource book than a method, it has all the building blocks in one place.

The Givone method book is excellent in every way, but in my opinion wait to start on it until you have the right hand basics sorted out. Otherwise you may develop some bad picking habits that you'll have to unlearn later. The Givone songbook fits in at this point as well.

Essential videos:

1. Denis Chang's Jazz Manouche: The Art of Accompaniment, which will get you started on rhythm playing, which is the foundation of this music.

2. Denis Chang's Jazz Manouche: Technique and Improvisation, which will add an aural and visual element to learning solo playing.

Michael Horowitz's book, Gypsy Rhythm, is a great resource book, but get through the video rhythm stuff first.

Start with these and you won't go wrong.

Denis Chang's school mentioned above gives you access to one of the best teachers of this music you;ll find anywhere, and Robin Nolan has a series of video lessons that will get you an inside look at the style of one of the most unique players around.

kevorkazito · February 2013

Thanks for the input. I do have many of Micheal's books and all the Denis Chang DVDs.

I think I will get a couple of the Givone books and perhaps Wrembel's book as well.

I'm slowly becoming more of a GJ player. When I go play with my rock band I am playing with a greater depth than I have ever had in my life. I always make the analogy of music as a language and GJ is like Richard Burton reciting Shakespeare; it's so transcendental.

My hands have never moved so fast and that's such a rush. When you play GJ you need such a clear mind; any attention black holes will sink you. It's a way of life I'm finding. Maybe, it's time to develop a taste for wine (yuck! lol).

beenawhile · February 2013

anthone...thanks for the recommendation for the Method...I am wondering if you have seen the 25 pieces as well? Are the patterns in the Givone book musical or are just arps?

michael, thanks for taking the time to send my along the proper GJ learning path. Hard to dispute path you paint..I think your recommendations are quite universal throughout this forum. Actually, I own the Wremble book and have a wonderful library that has all of Denis Chang's vids and also Michael's Gypsy Picking. But as I tried to suggest in my earlier post, I am more interested in expanding ears than I am learning how to master picking. That doesn't mean I don't try to apply some of the basic rules and even learn a few new tricks...but I have sort of found that the more I play this music, the more some of those things tend to come on their own (at least to the extent that I am personally happy with). I am sure that I will revisit Michael and Denis at various points in the future.

I come from a rock background and have a special passion for 60s surf/instro guitar (which is more similar to GJ than one might think at first glance). I have always loved early jazz, western swing, rockabilly, etc, and like to intertwine those styles in my surf and rock playing whenever I get a chance.

As it so happens, GJ seems to have WAY more instructional material available compared to some of these other styles. And since I love Django's music (and other gypsy and non-gypsy players, of course), exploring this music is just a great way for me to explore jazz in a way that is exciting and understandable. And I think that is the reason I have preferred the Nolan stuff...it suits my goals and is pretty immediate. Nolan is very good at providing exercises that isolate a certain sound...the b5, for instance...and I have no doubt that he could be an awesome surf guitar player!

Michael Bauer · February 2013

I have the 25 Pieces, and it consists of typical chord patterns, with two solos, the first being quite basic and easy, almost like a melody, and the second being more advanced. I think they are quite good. The licks in Givone's Method are really good licks, not just scales or arpeggios, and you could memorize those licks and go play nothing but them over one progression after another and sound pretty impressive to any audience. His licks are more modern than traditional, especially in the Method, and the second half of the book seems to focus on connecting those basic licks up in different ways over different progressions.

You won't sound at all like Tchavolo by studying the Givone method, but you will have a great modern sound. I really love Givone's playing, so if you have the skill to play that stuff at speed, you really can't go wrong.

Another good source for expanding your ideas are Gonzalo Bergara's two excellent "How I Learned" books. They are short and to the point: eighth-note studies a la Joe Pass, that will give you a ton of ideas on playing and moving around the neck in a musical way. Never mind the production quality; they may have been assembled at Staples, but you'll never regret getting them. There are a lifetime of great ideas in those two slim volumes!

beenawhile · February 2013

Thanks again, Michael. Great description of the products!

Any idea where one can buy the Bergara books? Looks to be out of stock.

Michael Bauer · February 2013

Try getting in touch with Michael and see if more are coming. They really do seem to have been assembled and printed at Staples or something of the ilk, so I am sure Gonzalo could whip up some more if there is a demand. otherwise, put an ad up in the Classifieds section stating that you want to buy them, and perhaps someone will have copies for sale.

if all attempts fail, send me a PM. In the meantime, I'll see if I can track down anyone with a copy for sale.

Michael Bauer · February 2013

A mutual friend is going to get in touch with Gonzalo about the availability of copies of his books. I'll get back to you as soon as I hear, or perhaps Gonzalo or my friend will answer directly. However it works, I hope we;ll be able to help you out.