Guitar Mics for a live show.

Passacaglia

Wow, unbelievably helpful, thank you, Bob. Chris and I are friends (it was Chris who sold me on how good a job the right Trace Elliott can do - I own a British-era amp, like his). He rarely does any tweaking, just puts it on Channel 2 XLR (this channel has the graphic eq.) and keeps it flat. On the odd occasion, the only thing he's found he needs to do is drop the 330 hz a bit. He sends a pre-eq to the house, preferring the house to get as clean a signal as he can give them to work with.

By the way - my eyes aren't that great, was that Stephane Wrembel and Roy Williams indeed playing two of your guitars last night?

Bob Holo

Yes, that can be a problem range - everything on stage from vocals to drums to guitars to bass is putting out a decent amount of energy around 200-400hz and then to top it off, a lot of PA monitors, particularly the sealed ones, are bumped around 200hz because small sealed box 8" monitors start fading pretty fast at about 120hz just due to the physics of compressed air in a small box, and so the designers bump the lowend frequency up so they can say: "Our little speakers are only down 3db at 80hz! because for some reason, most people buy speakers by reading the marketing specs instead of listening to them (Of course, the marketers conveniently leave out the bit about them being +6db at 150hz to achieve that -3db at 80hz) With actively amplified modern monitors this is becoming less of an issue because the amp is in the speaker and you can essentially program the speaker's response curve into its amp at the factory as long as it has a suspension and voice-coil rugged enough to handle that torture. But the standard: "Guitar center labor-day weekend sale" PA speakers still suffer from the same chubby lowend problem which further bumps an already overloaded frequency spectrum.

Yes, Stephane & Roy are both using short-scale Selmer style models. That model was Stephane's idea - like Django's '38 sound, but with a bit more cut in the midrange.

Passacaglia

Wow, thank you again, Bob. I've learned a serious amount of something with a spare few paragraphs. Very, very appreciative.

Paul

Passacaglia

These AKGs are selling now for $100, so I'm sorely tempted. Does anyone have any experience points to share on an external mic (of this ilk) v. a mini, like the AT831B? The fact it's a comparison means we can presume a fairly quiet, concert venue - otherwise, I'd opt for the Ischell. After seeing Stephane Wrembel's concert Thursday night, with both of them using Ischell, I might find myself using the Ischell anyway. They sounded great.

At any rate, a head-to-head comparison of a clip-on, lavalier like the 831B, with a gooseneck, "universal" mount; and the AKG C100S external mic. The 831 is a cardioid pattern, and The AKG has many options, as Bob puts so well, above.

I don't generally like playing with external mics - though I know it's something I need to get used to. Somehow I feel slightly claustrophobic, and that feeling translates to tension in my playing. I know that's lame and I also suspect that with time, it would be, like all other, unfamiliar things, a moot point. Still, if the tone quality of lavalier compares favorably to the AKG, I feel much "freer" with the lavalier, esp. with it's universal, gooseneck mount adaptor.

Jazzaferri wrote:

If it were me I would use my AKG onboard (or DPA 4099) and a 603 in the nearfield and blend the sound.

Finally, a bit unclear what benefit would obtain, blending these two (presume the AT 831B and the AKG C100S)? I understand the art of blending a mag or a piezo with a mic, just not sure what one would be looking for, blending these two mics. Can you elaborate, Jay?

Jazzaferri

The AT has one colour and the MXl Ito my ears is a more open acoustic guitar sound. The 603 was recommended to me by Harvey Gerst (award winning recording engineer) as his fave inexpensive guitar mic. All he uses em for.

When I was testing the AT with the DPA the DPA smoked the AT soundwise but I couldn't find a position on my Dunn Ultrafox which has a resonater, using the attachment gear, that wasn't way too bassy. Otherwise I would have just got the DPA and left it at that.

If I am just down and dirty at a jammy type thing and not fussing about sound I just use the 831 as it a no muss nonfuss deal. IfI care, I will add the 603 to some amount to make up for the shortcomings of the 831 but it involves more stuff and work. I dont like taking expensive mics to a show and I dont play venues on guitar where feedback is an uncontrollable issue.

One day when I need, I will buy the DPA for the sax( great for that) and then play around with itmon my Dunn.

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

The AT has one colour

Unsure what you mean by this, Jay. Thin? Tinny?

Jazzaferri wrote:

the DPA smoked the AT soundwise

Which DPA do you have? Any recordings? While we're at it, you know, I don't know I've heard any of your guitar work - if you've got some recordings laying around with various setups, I'd love to hear, Jay.

Jazzaferri

Nope not thin or tinny, just has its own sound.

If you can sort out your issues with it record yourself on the AT and the 603 palying the same things and compare

That should clear it up. Perhaps not as open or quite as full or broad or some words like that ... Best to hear the diff.

Jazzaferri

Te DPA I tested was the 4099. But is almost 3 times what I paid for the AT so hardly a fair comparison.


Camaro to Corvette Z6 Not really quite fair although both work pretty well too.

pinkgary

Can just throw in the AT350 & the beta98s as both being much better than the pro 70 & 831b,but probably not as good as the DPA, but priced accordingly. Both worthy of consideration.

Passacaglia

Thanks, guys. I went ahead with the AKG C1000S. My only question now is one of redundancy. I had hoped to acquire the stuff that would suit our local market's varied venues. I now have:

-Trace Elliot 100R
-Ischell Inside Box
-AT 831B, gooseneck mount
-AKG C1000S, boom stand
-MXL 603S
-SM58, stand
-Baggs Para DI

I'm thinking of offering up my MXL 603S for sale, though the collector in me doesn't really want to let it go (redundancy upon redundancy).

The growing geek in me also dreams of a decent home recording studio. I had a Presonus Bluetube, sold it. This is for down the road, but thinking on DAW, Software, Monitors/Headphones. All input welcome.