Video Lessons

Bones

In all the video lessons that I have seen, the split screen of the right hand technique is really good and helpful but I am always looking at my own technique from a different angle (i.e. from my perspective as I am playing).

I've done the looking in the mirror trick to try to get the same angle but I always wonder how my pick position/angle and fingers look compared to the experts and I never feel certain that I am doing it correctly.

Has anyone ever seen video from this angle (i.e. looking down from the players perspective)?

I see a lot of questions on the forum about the minutia of pick angle, finger curl, etc. so I think others must have the same questions.

thanks

kevorkazito

You know, I have considered this very idea.

Every single instruction DVD that I have or video lessons has the perspective of looking dead-on. I guess that after awhile you learn to adapt to this mirror image.

Recently, at the Rosenberg Academy I was thinking about how great it would be if Stochelo had something like those spy glasses with the video camera built in. The technology to accomplish is quite ubiquitous now; you don't have to 007 to have access to it.

When learning from these videos I just glance to get the cage and my eyes turn off. Then I'm all about the sound. I find looking dead on distracting when I am learning.

I have recently learned how to import video into VLC and really slooooow it down. You can make it crawl (like make 180bpm slow to 30bpm) and still keep the pitch of the sound. That perspective really makes it easy to nail down the form of the player, not just the notes. I find this feature lacking in video instruction.

I'm sure it'll happen some time though. There's gotta be an up-and-coming player thinking about it.

My preference are these three views:

1) Player's perspective.

2) Up close about half-meter (almost 2ft), looking down from the neck-to-bridge at a small angle, say 20deg (this is my favorite view because I can see everything along with focus on the right hand articulations).

3) Dead-on, whole front body view.

That's it. Like I say, I abandon the visual quite early in the learning process and am all ears most of the time.

Bones

Hi Kev,

The reason that I am thinking about this now is that I am FINALLY starting to commit some serious hours to learning this style and I want to make sure that I am not practicing bad habits and wasting time.

For the left hand technique I think the basic full front view works fine for getting the correct fingering, etc. and I'm used to looking at it 'backwards' (if that makes sense).

For the right hand technique, I think the front and the angle split screen work well for showing the loose feel and one pick angle but I just wonder if I am missing something as far as how the pick and fingers look from the players perspective since I never see that except for my own hand.

Archtop Eddy

I agree with you Bones. Overhead shots from the player's perspective can be quite useful. Back in 2003, my friend Greg Gunter and I were traveling through Europe and took a group class with Mandino Reinhardt in Europe. We shot a bunch of video and at one point took the camera and shot over-the-shoulder clips of Mandino. Some of the other classmates thought this was pretty funny and we were out-of-control Americans, but it didn't take long before they too realized this was a great vantage viewpoint. From the front-view, the camera tends to flatten the image, and even from the neck-angle shot, it's often hard to see the small (but important) details like how much pick is being used, the angle of the attack, the amount of thumb covering the pick, the actual bend in the wrist, what the other fingers are or aren't doing, etc., etc. The overhead shot shows a lot of this stuff. I've actually used this technique when taping lessons from other players as well, and when I was with the Gypsy Jazz Academy, requested and received similar clips of overhead shots of Fapy Lafertin playing both solo and rhythm. Unfortunately, as far as I know at this point none of the clips I'm referring to have been posted anywhere (like on YouTube). However, if I can dig up something here to show you, I"ll let you know... AE

Bones

Hey AE,

That would be awesome if you had some clips! That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm interested in (pick angle, how much of the pick is exposed, finger postition, etc.). As well as just trying to visualize how the pick feels in the right hand (that sounds weird but you know what I mean).

Thanks in advance!

Kal-EL

heres a very intimate view of stochelo's picking - i would have told the camera guy to get out of my face!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWXwze0boU

Bones

That's the best angle that I have seen but what I'm wondering about all the instructional videos is why they never show the pick hand from the players perspective. Like if you were behind them and filming over their shoulder looking down.

That way you can compare what your hand looks like to theirs.

It's a minor thing but as we know, small errors in technique can make a big difference.

thanks for posting that.

Steveareno

Archtop, so cool you got a chance to shoot some footage of Mandino. So what happened to the clips? He's an awesome player and there doesn't seem to be a lot of stuff out there on him. I dig his style and playing, especially on Mire Pral. I should break down and order one his CDs.
Swang on,

thickpick

As an example of interesting camera angles, have you ever seen any of James Taylor's online lessons? He puts a camera in the guitar's sound hole so you can watch his picking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biqYPp3RKxY

Archtop Eddy

That's some pretty amazing playing and filming on the James Taylor clip. JT is so tasteful, isn't he?

Okay, I have to confess I may never find or be able to upload the over-the-shoulder shots of Mandino. The technology used then (2002) is so old now I may not have the computer gear needed to get from there to here.

So as a consolation prize, you could try this...

In a new thread I started at Archtop Eddy's corner, you can find a 12 minute video called "Finding the Elusive Gypsy Swing Rhythm." In it are six examples of artist playing Coquette. Each section has four angles including some over-the-shoulder shots. You can clearly see their picking hand.

Reviewing the clips today, I noticed that in most cases the pick's "tip" (actually, probably one of the rounded bouts and not the actual pointed tip) is angled back toward the bridge. You can see this if you keep stopping the image until you get a clear shot of the pick. Additionally, it seems to me that in many cases the thumb of the picking hand (Jeff and Gonzalo) are brushing the strings in front of the pick -- almost immediately after the pick strikes the string. I may be wrong but that's how it looks to me. (Note: Please keep in mind that this video demonstrates a very specific rhythm technique and these observations may not be true regarding solo playing or other rhythm styles.)

Anyway, I hope this can give you some idea about the value of over-the-shoulder-shots and I hope others will try this angle when they film instructional videos.

The thread is here: http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=61965#p61965 AE

Bones

Yes, that video angle is exactly what I was looking for. Very cool. I'm kind of surprised that I've never seen that angle in any instructional material since the right hand technique is fairly critical for this genre.

I guess if one is naturally gifted it's not a big deal but since I'm not I always wonder if my technique is correct and it's hard to tell from looking straight on at someone else if it looks the same. I've tried the looking in the mirror thing but that is really hard to do since I need to look at the guitar to play.