Tritone Substitution

Bones

Passacaglia

Bones wrote:

Of course, if the rhythm player hears it (or anticipates it) he could switch and play a Db7 chord but that would not be necessary.

Sorry guys, humble rhythm player here, a bit off topic - but this goes to something I think about a good deal, but am nowhere near being able to do...and that is, be a "live" accompanist to soloists. My work over the past year (well, that is, after coming back from DIJ, as up to this wonderful camp, I spent time gathering 50-60ish tunes together, in order to be able to jam) has been devoted almost exclusively to fundamentals - tone, swing, timekeeping.

I have very little theory, and have almost no retention with what I did study a few years back (bit of a memory issue, that's another story). But I'd like to come to the point where I can support soloists in the best way I can, by just your thought above, Swing.

How do you guys do this? I'm in awe of anyone hearing a soloist and changing a pre-determined harmony scheme on the fly, really, by ear. I feel so completely hapless in this world. I'm very well fixed in place - mine is a kind of amalgam of tunes, voicings and schemes coming as a kind of coda, from a few GJ rhythm people I have considered virtual gurus (used to be Hono; love the man, but have since moved, madly, to try and capture Nous'che's sense of things). Anyway - how do you accomplish this sort of living harmony, if supporting someone?

Jazzaferri

Practicing the different changes...ii V I....vi V I ..... Trisubs where the make sense.

for example

For Sephora beach chord gets two beats

Em Em Em Em. Am7 Am7 etc

Em Em Em9 A13b9 Am 7 Am7 Am7 Am7. B7 B7 B7 F7 Em etc. tri sub of f7 leading into Em

Coming into bridge last two bars and first two bars of bridge

Em Em E7 Bb7 Am7 Am7 D7 Ab7 ....into Gma7

Using tritone subs in this to move it around. Just an example but.....

Another that occurs off the top, if one is moving from a V to. Ima7 and the melodic phrasing works adding a sharp 5 to the V7 in that cadence at the right point is nice voice leading.

If you really want to get this whole concept stop listening to GJ for a while and study JS Bach truly a great source of understanding GJ harmony.

If one is not listeneing to the lead one can end up stepping all over his ideas. Takes a lot of listening skill and being able to hear harmonically what the lead playing is doing and where he is going to be able to do this sort of thing with someone one doesnt know.

Somewhat easier if one is playing with one of the million note a minute guys cause then there usually is just a bunch of stock phrases coming out so fast that as long as your time is good there is no tonal center in place long enough to matter.

Best to practice with people you regularly play with. Learn the changes and places one can sub using voice leading, descending bass line into a change or a new section for example or other place.

Learn the bass lines of all the tunes you play well enough so you can sing the bass line (to yourself if your pitch control is lacking). The more in snych your chord lines are with the bass lines and the harmonic structure the more you will nderstand the freedom you have to move around. It takes years and years of this sort of thing to get decent at it so remeber to patiently enjoy each step of the journey.

Bones

Paul, I'm no pro but as far as I know most of the substitutions and alterations happen over a dominant chord. Typically, I just try to stay in the low register and emphasize 3rds and 7ths for a dominant. That way, no matter what the soloist does you won't clash.

If you are playing a lot, especially with the same players or type of player, and they are throwing in altered notes in their solos (typically in the higher register) you can anticipate what they are doing and when you hear it make the switch (like from G7 to Db9) or you can just throw it at them and see if they respond but some lead players may not like that.

If you are actually playing a substitute chord that means that you are changing the root note and that sounds a lot different of a chord progression. I.e. E7 A7 D7 G7 becomes E7 Eb7 D7 G7 (nice chromatic root movement but really sounds different).

The safer approach is to stay on the lower 3-4 strings and just play the E7 A7 etc. using 3 note voicings a la Freddie Green which mostly just are root 3rd and 7th and you can't go wrong since the 3rd and 7th are the same notes no matter what the soloist does. Even if you sound the 5th in the bass (typical of these inversions) it shouldn't clash much if the lead player is in the high register but if so and you hear it, it's an easy quick switch to the tritone sub since the 3rd and 7th are the same notes (i.e. almost the same chord). Plus if you are damping properly the natural 5th won't really ring out all that much anyway.

Jazzaferri

Bones makes some excellent points. The 3 and 7 or 3,6,9 in 6th chords are the important notes if playing with a Bass other than a Simon Planting type where things can get very complicated quickly and it is best to play simple rhythms with stnd 4 note chords as that style of bass is all over the place, so either someone has to be the anchor for the group or they have to be really really on the same page or things get really weird really fast to my ear....often sounding like several people all taking at once...all trying to dominate the conversationq

Lango-Django

Anyway - how do you accomplish this sort of living harmony, if supporting someone?

Hmmm... the short answer is that after you've played a lot of rhythm, you'll find that this sort of thing will just happen naturally all by itself.

But be careful what you wish for... you may find yourself, when accompanying one of those soloists who loves to do "song quotes", being easily led down the garden path away from the original tune that you're supposed to be playing! (If you're anything like yours truly, that is.)

Anyway, one way to develop this sort of ear is to play a LOT of different songs by ear, jazz standards, folk songs, Beatles tunes, whatever, and you'll find that eventually your ear will just begin to hear the changes because the truth is that there are only a finite number of chord patterns that our western music recognizes as "appropriate".

And once you learn to "hear" a tune's changes in easy guitar keys like C, D, E, F, G, A--- well, then spend some time playing them in the harder keys as well.

Perhaps this may sound difficult right now but trust me it will happen.

Now as for tri-tone substitutions, there are tunes where they are going to sound appropriate and others where they won't, and your ear will eventually tell you that, too.

And just because the soloist uses a tri-tone subsitution doesn't necessarily mean that the rhythm player should use the exact same thing. Sometimes the slight tension generated by slightly imperfect arp substitutions is "not a bug, but a feature".

But the greatest of all rhythm guitarists, IMHO, are the ones who will stick doggedly to the original tempo despite the efforts of soloists to speed it up or slow it down... but not only that... these players have a kind of generosity of spirit that makes the soloist feel relaxed and happy, and they create a positive, swinging feel that listeners appreciate as much as the soloist does, even if it is a more "subconscious" level of appreciation.

In other words, these players have a feel that says, "Hey, listen to that guy--- he's really good!" and not one that says "Hey, listen to me, I'm really good!"

Passacaglia

Incredible posts, guys. I'm very grateful. A bit under the weather physically these days, so may not be back much for awhile, but really grateful, Bones, Jay, Will - some good stuff to chew.

Paul

Lango-Django

Oh, yeah, forgot to say one last thing about tri-tone substitution which any fellow Beatles fans out there may recognize.

Listen to John Lennon's introductory verse to "If I Fell"... it's in the key of D and the first chord is Em, pretty normal stuff..

And then, wait! What is that unexpected Eb chord under the line "promise to be true"...?

Yup, that there's your tri-tone substitution, boy; right where the ear was logically expecting an A7 chord, or maybe a Gm.

Except since Lennon wasn't a jazz guy, so he heard it as a straight Eb chord, not an Eb7...

Jazzaferri

Tif one is really interested in jazz harmony. Mark Levines jJazz Theory book is one of the standard texts in colleges and Universities.
A lot of times a substitution will take place in prder to move either the bass line or the melody line with a chord tone.

For example in the progression the ii V I using a tritone sub gives a descending bass line ....eg. Dm G7 CM... Bass is D G C using the sub Dm Dbm CM bass becomes D Db C

Jazzaferri

Will if a major chord is played its not a tritone sustitution. It doesnt always work harmonically to play a dominant 7 a tritone away from a dominant 7 chord. There are certain "rules" that are mostly followed but sometimes broken.

Lennon was probably looking for a descending line with his melody.