'Swing' Eighths

Bones

I ALWAYS tend to swing my eighth note picking just out of habit.

But I think to play at faster tempos it is probably necessary to morph more into 'straight' eighths since the duration between notes gets shorter as the tempo increases.

Does anyone typically switch to straight eights at faster tempos?

I actually find it hard to play straight 8ths since I never practice that way. I have to force myself to do it. I'm wondering if I shouldn't practice that way as a way to improve my speed???

hanear21

I tend to do this as well. It's probably best to learn something in straight eighths first but I can't say I always take the time to do so. I play mostly gypsy jazz these days so I don't see it as a huge issue.

I don't think I'm capable of playing tunes fast enough that I have to worry about switching from swing eighths to straight eighths

Our group has been talking about playing more bossas lately. I would guess that'd be a good way to practice straight eighths and still be doing something relevant.

Jazzaferri

playing eighths at somewhere around 180 and up on a swing tune on sax they start to morph into narly straight but attack can make up for lack of swing timing.

Next time I'm on guitar I'll see if its any different.

Bones

Jazza, yes 180 is about where I max out with swing 8ths.

Hanear21, yes, good point. Bossas are straight 8ths. Maybe I should play more bossas to get more used to that feel!

dennis

i would advise practicing swinging the 8th notes, it's a common beginner mistake... despite what books may say it sounds really cheesy when it's done..

instead the 8th notes should be relatively straight (in some instances, u can play with a slight laid back feel so that it sounds bouncy) ; the swing comes from the phrasing and timing not from the triplet feel...

listen to this for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72UeP0o68JA

charlie parker himself, in some instances the 8th notes are slightly laid back but not "swung" but most of the time they're fairly straight.

or the king of swing mister louis armstrong himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFzxo-XI8As

most of the 8th notes are staright, at certain points he does have a bit of a laidback bouncy feel b ut not quite the quantized swing 8th notes that books often tell students to practice...

there is no rule for choosing when to play with a bouncy laid back feel, but it s usually more effective on slower songs like in this instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QOd7urjwTQ

the problem is that people tend to over pronounced the swung 8ths to the point where it's closer to a dotted 8th and 16th, and that's just considered very amateurish by many jazz musicians

Jazzaferri

Sax is so easy to change the phrasing on to get a feel tongue one and legato one. Pretty square if you toungue on the beat and play the next eighth legato.. Reversing that gives a really nice swingy jazzy feel and you can play stright eighths timing wise but it doesnt sound like it

Birds phrasing is phenomenal when he gets going at speed.

Bones

Thanks Dennis. That makes sense.

Yes, showing how 'green' I am....

brandoneon

Another way of looking at it ... visually
http://www.jazzpath.com/education/audiolesson.php
8)

Bones

I had not listened to that version of Blues en Mineur for a while. That is so great, I need to work on that transcription!

kevorkazito

brandoneon wrote:

Another way of looking at it ... visually
http://www.jazzpath.com/education/audiolesson.php
8)

Those examples say it al! I may have to get that book. In a far-off dream I would like to learn Charlie Parker licks on my guitar. Thanks for that.

Jazzaferri

Charlie Parker Omnibook. I thinkit is out in concert pitch version...142 pages of parker heads and solos. :shock: notation only

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