[Controversial] Why is there not any great US guitarists?

redblues

The title cut me short, my question is why is there no North American guitarists who can compare with European guitarists in this genre? The answer of tradition is moot, Diknu Schneeberger is German, Olli Soikkeli is Finnish, user @rimm has consistently posted an amateur better than any US player I've seen, Fintan Gilligan from Ireland, Gonzalo is from Argentina, Stu Blagden from the UK. All of these are superb players and I haven't touched France yet. Paul Mehling is one of my favourites, but he is not in the above category.

I'm not making a statement, but posing the question, why can't North America produce the talent of other countries in this genre? (please don't say tradition, it's an invalid argument)

Passacaglia

why can't North America produce the talent of other countries in this genre?

I'd have to say, your question is a tautology, so it can't be answered.

redblues

It's quite a simple question.
I shall phrase it differently so for you @pas

There are no US or Canadian born players that could book and hold a night in the Atellier Charonne Paris, why do you think that is?
Reckon that's pretty tautology free, but the same question

Passacaglia

You make the presumption that there are no US players comparable to the great European players. Then ask why.

Your presumption is an opinion, not a fact, yet you're framing it as a fact, that needs an explanation as to why. It's a tautology, sorry. And as to your opinion, I couldn't disagree more, but it's probably fruitless.

redblues

You've got me wrong, I'm asking a genuine question here my friend, not trying to start an argument.

I have bought so many GJ albums (over 500 anyway) and have held off asking this question for a long time, I'm looking for an open discussion of opinion not a discussion of semantics, it's an honest question

Passacaglia

redblues wrote:

You've got me wrong, I'm asking a genuine question here my friend, not trying to start an argument.

I have bought so many GJ albums (over 500 anyway) and have held off asking this question for a long time, I'm looking for an open discussion of opinion not a discussion of semantics, it's an honest question

Red, let me frame it another way - there's nothing but Gitane guitars played at Samois. I genuinely ask, why?

Not trying to be belligerent either, but when your question comes loaded, I certainly can't answer it. If I were to start tossing out names - Alfonso Ponticelli, for one instance - because he's a North American, he's already excluded. Did you truly mean North American, so Canadian players also suck compared to Euro players, or is it just players from the United States who can't hold a candle to their European counterparts?

Flatly, your idea is no North American can compete, then ask why....do you see the issue?

(btw - Since childhood, I've been a pretty fierce francophile, and cheerleader for European culture, generally. No "freedom fries" in this lad's worldview).

redblues

Ponticelli is a perfect example, that guy could sell out the Stade de France. As would George Benson and even Eric Bibb (swallows vomit)

Those 2 guys are beyond words in terms of talent, but not gypsy jazz, why isn't there like a talent conveyor belt coming out of the US, and I'm really asking you guys cos you know better than I do, with the population and musical talent, it seems stagnant in terms of raw talent compared to europe.

would you agree?

redblues

No freedom fries..lolol

Passacaglia

redblues wrote:

Ponticelli is a perfect example, that guy could sell out the Stade de France. As would George Benson and even Eric Bibb (swallows vomit)

Those 2 guys are beyond words in terms of talent, but not gypsy jazz, why isn't there like a talent conveyor belt coming out of the US, and I'm really asking you guys cos you know better than I do, with the population and musical talent, it seems stagnant in terms of raw talent compared to europe.

would you agree?

Red, no, I wouldn't agree, simply because I've played in the company of some seriously gifted players. But then, my opinion doesn't count for much, as I'm truly a baby in this genre. There are some people onboard here who have an incredible history in this music, who also happen to come from this side of the pond, who can better speak to your idea.

It is also a sincere question on my part - by North American, do you also mean Canadians? Or is this notion limited to United States folks?

redblues

no I did mean Canadians too in my original question, to be honest Pas I've been waiting for the revoloution where N America takes over the GJ world and it just hasn't happened

Bones

I don't consider myself knowledgeable about all the great GJ guitarists in the world but I presume that what you are saying is true.

I can only speak from my own experience but there just aren't a lot of people in the US who really are interested in playing GJ guitar. There are and have been really great jazz guitar players but I believe all the great contemporary players have all been into more modern, electric,'straight ahead' jazz.

I think that there is somewhat of a resurgence of interest in playing this style of music here in the US but it is sort of a niche thing. I can tell you that it is really hard to find people to play with. If you are not immersed in it culturally from early on it is daunting to start since it is so technical, especially the solo guitar stuff but even the rhythm guitar. It really takes dedication on that level, plus there really isn't anyone else around to bounce ideas off of and jam with so it also lacks that synergy.

That's my take on it FWIW.

PS- but don't worry Red, if we can't be the best we'll just bomb the S#!T out of everything anyway....

PPS- I do think that if I could put together a group here in So Cal we could do pretty well on some level because people would think that we had just invented a 'new' thing and there certainly wouldn't be much competition....