Essential Gypsy Scales

Martlaws

Hi All,

This has quite probably been covered elsewhere among all the threads but but question is this:

Now that I am concentrating building up my right hand technique via regular scale practice etc, could anybody be kind enough to suggest, in simple terms, the most useful gypsy scales to centre my practice around so I have clear goals to aim for. Maybe a primary and secondary list?

Thanks in advance,

ML

hanear21

I'm not sure there's really much in terms of gypsy scales to be honest. Most gypsy jazz players don't usually think in terms of scales. I believe they mostly think in terms of arpeggios.

For example, in Nuages (in G Major), yes you could play the G major scale over it and your notes would not sound "wrong". However, it won't sound quite right either. It's more useful to think in terms of the chords being played. So you might play something from the Eb7 arpeggio over the first bar, something from D7 arpeggio over the second bar, and something from the GMaj arpeggio over the 3rd and 4th bars.

This approach highlights the tones of the chords being played, and sounds much "Jazzier" in my opinion. That said, arpeggios themselves don't give you that "gypsy" sound. If you want to have that gypsy flavor, then I suggest taking a look at these resources:

Denis Chang's Jazz Manouche: Technique & Improvisation DVDs - In this series Denis teaches you all the essential techniques, licks, and arpeggios/patterns that you would want to know for this style.

Daniel Givone's La Guitare Manouche - If you are accustomed to learning movable patterns (like scales) this method is pretty quick to pick up. Daniel teaches you the "5 forms" which are basically arpeggios with some chromatic and gypsy-sounding embellishments. There are 5 forms each for Major, Minor, Dominant in a major context, and Dominant in a minor context chords.

If you are in the same position as me, that is, new to the style but have been playing guitar for many years, I would recommend doing Daniel's book first, then Denis Chang's DVDs. It's working for me at least

Oops you asked for a suggestion in simple terms....

Don't try to play gypsy jazz with just scales, it's harder to make them sound good.

Learn Daniel Givone's 5 forms from his La Guitare Manouche. After you master those, check out Denis Chang's Technique and Improv DVDs. That's what I would do.

Happy playing!

Phil

Major, Minor 6, Dominant 7 and Diminished arpeggios. Combine those with your heart and your ears and you'll be on your way. Have fun!

...I also recommend the following book:

'Getting into Gypsy Jazz Guitar' (Book/CD Set)
by Stephane Wrembel

Jazzaferri

In many songs, while the key signature of the tune may stay the same, the harmony dictates or infers a change of key, so playing in one scale can result in some pretty crunchy harmonies.

You may find at firs that landing on a chord tone on the emphasized beats and using leading tones, suspensions and pasing notes in between will provide a more understandable solo.

The rhythm in this style doesn't IMO, lend itself well to getting way too far outside the box. I have learned this from the experience of watching an audience when I get really crunchy, outside the box. I also hear it a lot in jazz, where there can get to be too much going on at once and whatever statement is being made gets lost in a maze of complexity, particularly when there is piano and guitar.

In very quick notey passages, it becomes less relevant as one isn't hanging on to any note for long enough for it to matter as much.

Having said that, I have found that knowing the major scales in all positions and the 7 modes thereof and the harmonic minor scales and the chromatic scales learned in seconds thirds and patterns helps immensely in any style of play. For those that are inclined I recommend Sal Salvador's "Single String Studies" if you can fins a copy. If ypu wAnt to branch out, add melodic minor, pentatonic, whole tone and diminished

I have been working at sales for decades and will continue until........

anthon_74

I would add that, rather than thinking along the lines of SCALES, other than arpeggios, you can think in terms of "note maps" .

The 2 best books for note maps, (as opposed to licks) from what I've seen, are Gonzalo Bargueras how I learned series (you will find ways he used a major scale like note map at times) -- also the Givone book guitara manouche methode (it's in french, but easy to understand )...

For an encyclopedia of arpeggios, good practice tips, and what's called the "lower approach" and the "upper approach" Stephane Wrembles book - getting gypsy jazz is vital.

There is ONE scale that can be definitively used in some gypsy jazz tuned, and that is the harmonic minor scale (with the raised 7th). In minor swing, you can "cheat" and almost play the A harmonic minor over the entire song - Of course, this is outlined in Stephane wrembles book.

Cheers,

Anthony

Joli Gadjo

There was also a book I had seen a while ago (was it "Guitare Tzigane" by a French), with a more traditional "Gypsy" take on those scales, comparing Romanian, Byzantin, Bartok.... with those very interesting colors (m2 M3, #4 etc...).

MichaelHorowitz

Joli Gadjo wrote:

There was also a book I had seen a while ago (was it "Guitare Tzigane" by a French), with a more traditional "Gypsy" take on those scales, comparing Romanian, Byzantin, Bartok.... with those very interesting colors (m2 M3, #4 etc...).

I think this is the one you're talking about:

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/Ite ... re-tzigane

kevorkazito

Jazzaferri wrote:

For those that are inclined I recommend Sal Salvador's "Single String Studies" if you can fins a copy...

Pardon this diversion but...

Jay, I did find a copy. I must say that I find your recommendations for reference material and other info totally invaluable.

I've already started reading 'Effortless Mastery' and ordered the Charlie Parker Omni book. I can't afford to do a proper 'higher' music schooling but you're suggestions are helping me a lot to make up for it. Keep it coming!

Jazzaferri

Thanks for your kind remarks

While I am glad that I got blown out of my rut by going to college for a jazz diploma ..... it is really a two edge sword and I believe that hard work with good material and playing lots with others is as good if not better. :shock:

I got turned onto Sal at 17 and boy am I glad. In no way did I work through all the things with near the diligence that I should have back then, but I still use some of the patterns today for warm up and practice in different scales and positions.

If one were to sit own for two years a couple of hours a day and master all the contents you could play whatever music comes into ones head. No need for copying licks or whatever. Just lots of deep listening and playing whatever comes to mind EFFORTLESSLY hahahaha

kevorkazito

Jazzaferri wrote:

Thanks for your kind remarks

No problem man, as I really appreciate the direction. In the early 80s my friends went to Antigonish for SFXU for jazz training. I could name drop but I won't as they did awlright. I just went to work and kept playing. I found myself in a major 'rut' and was awakened by a live performance a few years ago by Jeff Healey and Randy Bachman. Man, it was like Healey was reciting Shakespeare like Richard Burton and Randy was saying 'goo goo gaa gaa'. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm from Winnipeg and I luv Randy. It's just that something popped in my head that said: FIND THAT VOCABULARY! (I was also saying 'goo goo gaa gaa' with my guitar

The door opened for me with GJ. I will always say that guitar playing in GJ style to me is like what I said, Richard Burton reciting Shakespeare.

I don't mind being a 'gadjo' playing this music because I feel it in my heart... but I digress.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences in learning.

Jazzaferri

You are most welcome. Excellent comparison IMO. Django would have been all smiles being compared to Shakespeare....and quite on the money.

Didn't Sting write a song saying something like goo goo goo da da da etc. :twisted: mind I really like alot of his stuff...