Picking Exercises From "Gypsy Picking"

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

Developing some but not all of the muscles that are used in an activity changes the balance and will usually result in a degradation or limitation of performance though.

Also, the laws of physics do enter into this as well. The more mass there is the more energy to accelerate and decelerate and in most cases this takes a detectable time difference. At our level, probably not a issue LOL...but for those who are picking eigths at speeds over 260 probably becomes more of a concern

Hmm, can't go with you on this one, Jay. On your first paragraph, I don't think that's the question. "Muscles" are rarely used in something. Specific muscle fibers for specific tasks, at specific speeds and under specific loads, are engaged. So if a guy goes out and does a bunch of reverse wrist curls, yes, you'll see larger forearm muscles. And he'll be able to do what he's been doing, reverse arm curls of a given load and at a given speed. I don't see any science supporting that somehow this "imbalances" the muscles he'd use in playing guitar.

On your second paragraph re: muscle mass impairing speed, as it requires "more energy to accelerate and decelerate," again, I don't see the science. Or, well...



Don't tell this guy. He might slow down.

Jazzaferri

Well, Paul. We will have to agree to disagree. If a muscle group isnt involved directly or indirectly in an activity then it doesnt matter much.

All hi level athletes now have specific training programs to balance the muscles to maximise performance and minimize injury.

How many body buiders do you see being olympic gold medal swimmers, or sprinters? Look at the build of a shot putter versus a long distance runner or swimmer. The fastest guys in Taekwondo (alas I only made green) were not the big muscle guys, of which there were plenty. In fact our master Mr. Kwan, was ver slight, could have dropped any of those big guys with one punch, and could break more stuff than any of them in spite of being about half their weight.

There are generally sets of muscles involved in any activity, and I regret if I was not clear enough. Building up one part of that set without working on the others can create limits, and also rsi issues. This last from personal experience.

A runner only accelerates at the beginning and then works at maintaining that speed. Not a constant accelerate, decelerate cycle as picking is.

The larger and stronger the muscle the more difficult really fine differentiation in minute muscle control becomes. Ever try driving a tack with a sledge hammer? Try strapping a 1 lb lead weight in the cup of your hand and playing your rhythm. You will see what I am driving at.

Oh and your pic of the sprinter, as far as athletes go, he is well balanced, finely tuned and not particularly large muscled. They are big enough in the right places to get the job done. And I bet he doesnt spend time doing 600 lb leg presses.

Bones

Again, not that I know but I have to believe that the best training is just playing but I know what you are saying that there is only so much the wife/family can take.

There may be some exercises that would help, I don't know, but I'm glad you'll be keeping both hands on the wheel. At least with the traffic around here in So Cal you wouldn't want to be doing any weight lifting while trying to navigate traffic on the 101 at rush hour. :-)

Passacaglia

This is off-topic, Jay, and we can continue this in PM, if you'd like. At the heart of it:

All hi level athletes now have specific training programs to balance the muscles to maximise performance and minimize injury.

No, they all have specific training programs to optimize the needs of their sports. In my case, as a "stamina" swimmer, that included "Max VO2 consumption" and a host of other devilish, heavily science-based training. (Earlier, I was pure distance, and simply swam miles daily).

How many body buiders do you see being olympic gold medal swimmers, or sprinters? Look at the build of a shot putter versus a long distance runner or swimmer.

Precisely my point. Athletes train specific muscle fibers to complete a specific activity, at a specific rate of fire (encouraging fast or slow twitch development), through a specific motion. Precisely why body builders are not swimmers, or sprinters. And the reverse holds - again, precisely my point.

The fastest guys in Taekwondo (alas I only made green) were not the big muscle guys, of which there were plenty. In fact our master Mr. Kwan, was ver slight, could have dropped any of those big guys with one punch, and could break more stuff than any of them in spite of being about half their weight.

I think you missed the point. I didn't say muscle mass builds speed. I said it doesn't preclude speed. It's not the mass "physics" that "slows" down the individual, it's the particular set of fast and slow twitch fibers, and their response to stress, that matters. Everything depends on training, and the body adapts to the athletic stress.

I'm a big guy. Back when I was punching and kicking a lot, I was fast, because tae-kwon do was all I did. (my late Master KiChung Han). Over the course of my swimming life, I moved from true distance (1500 km) to stamina events (400 I.M., 400 M free). My brother came to his most intense period when Dr. James Counsilman (US Olympic coach - and my brother's coach) published his book, The Science of Swimming. I came slightly after, with a lot of science coming out of California; the aforementioned "Max VO2" training, etc. Later, as an Aikido and Iaido instructor, very different needs altogether. Aside from losing a ton of weight when I was uchideshi (inside student; lived as a direct apprentice, in the temple/dojo - lost weight just because I trained hours daily, and couldn't get enough in me to keep up), I've always been big, and I would not say my swordstrokes and so forth were slowed by my size.

Anyway, lots we can talk on this, but I'll conclude with the stuff above, on-board.

Jazzaferri

Well, i have to say, we are pretty much on the same page, saying pretty much the same things, I beleieve you have a more detailed knowledge of this. We can discuss the picking aspects offline amigo

AmundLauritzen

I don't think there is much if any correlation between weightlifting and playing music. The motor skills involved in guitar playing are much more about the nervous system than raw strength. Actually, the best players use minimal strength and complete relaxation. If you tense your wrist, you're finished. The same for the fretting hand. You don't want to push the frets down any harder than you have to. It's more nimbleness involved than raw strength.

Look at the wrists of Stochelo, Angelo and Bireli. They're moving like liquid. Absolutely no effort involved at all.

That being said, taking care of your body is a good idea because with health comes more energy for practice.

I think I've seen a youtube video of the player in question. He's a great player! I think he plays well because he practiced a lot, but that's just me :P

chimorh

Bones, my apologies for not replying directly to you sooner but I thank Passacaglia for doing so on my behalf.

Yes the "Astuces de la guitare manouche" are available on this site, they're really great, but the "Precision Technique" that I think was suggested by Denis Chang on this site has to be obtained from Robert Conti's site.

I have been working out with weights since I was 15 and spent 5 years doing Jeet Kune Do but I don't think either one helps or hinders guitar playing.

What I now think is important, having spent a few months with the "Precision Technique" is tendon strength in the fingers and hands. These exercises presented by Conti were originally designed for student violinist by Franz Wohlfahrt and have dramatically improved my dexterity and speed but particularly my precision. I used to be so "blurry" in comparison! I just HAVE TO be able to play licks with the precision and speed of Adrien Moignard's improvisation on his "All the Way".....hahahahahaha....maybe in 40 years!!!....Anyone got tabs for that incidentally??....really incredible.

I read somewhere on this site someone commenting on Django's ability to tremelo virtually every note, which I just couldn't do, but now, thanks to the Conti exercises, I'm getting there and can almost follow Stochelo on the RA site (albeit in slow motion!!!....sounds so so good ....he said again modestly!!) who amazingly tremeloes almost every note. To do this I think you need tendon strength not muscles!!! The Conti exercises have helped!!!

Bones

thanks!

Lango-Django

Ok, here's a challenge for anyone who may be, like yours truly, trying to increase speed and accuracy in doing descending arps.


- get out yer metronome and set it for some easy speed, say 120 bpm to start
- now finger a first position "F" chord
- play the notes of the chord ascending and descending, using only downstrokes
- keep increasing the metronome speed in increments of 10 or so
- at what point do you hit your "speed limit"

right now I'm steady up to about 160... past that, things start to get a little "iffy"

Will

Bones

Hey Will,

I've been working on Indifference this week and I took Hemert's advice and I've been drilling on each section (A, B, C) of that tune using his method and it seems to be helping a lot.

Don't move up on the metronome until you can reliably play it with perfect technique and no mistakes 10 times in a row.