Gypsy Educational Culture

Toneranger

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to GJ and have been wondering: how are kids/teens taught to play within the culture once they have the elementary basics down (know a few chords, can fret and pick notes)? Are they given a set list to follow, where they learn pieces and solos first and then they try to connect the licks outside of those pieces? What's the process like?

Would be really be helpful if someone who's gone through this process and taught by their father/uncles/cousins etc could explain a bit.

Thanks
TR

dennis

there is no process haha... there's no secret magic method that they use.

I can say, however, that , at the base, they don't view music the same way most people do; for them it's just a way of life, a part of their culture... I m not exactly sure how to explain it. For one thing, lots of people tend to make things more complicated than they need to be, it's quite clear when you check out all the technical/theoretical questions in the forum; for them , there's none of that, they just pick up the instrument and do their best to follow their uncles/cousins, and eventually with enough perseverance and practice, they start to get the hang of it... Really as simple as that..

Of course, that's not to say they don't get any help, it depends on each person, but if they have access to lots of family members who play, someone is bound to show the kid a few things here and there; but not the way one might think. For instance, if you go to a typical "academic" jazz lesson, the guitar teacher will probably show you the different positions of a scale, and then tell you to work on you II V I, etc..

In the Gypsy way, it's more like they'll show the kid a nice phrase, or a chord voicing; always very very simple...

There are definitely pros and cons to this method of learning; i've talked about it before on this forum..

one of the biggest negative aspects i've noticed is their way of thinking of song structures. A lot of them have no concept of form, and on an AABA song, they can play the A a bunch of times before going to B, and it's just a guessing game. In other instances I've seen, rhythm players would add extra beats !!!!

Of course, the ones who truly stand out are the ones who are able to overcome the disadvantages of this learning method.

dennis

Oh and i forget to mention, they transcribe a LOT! Their transcriptions are not always exact, but they learn by figuring out solos by ear...

take this for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4JlsncEwXI

django's solo on blues clair with lots of "mistakes" in the transcription, but the solo becomes his own...

Their method of transcribing is not necessarily to be hundred percent accurate but get as close to the general feel as possible...

Toneranger

Thanks Dennis for the lengthy reply, appreciate it.

Yeah I wasn't implying that there's any 'magic' involved. If anything I can only imagine the hours of hard work that go into it, even for these kids and teens. What you said about the kids being showed a phrase or a chord, speaks to what seems to be transmission of bytes/little bites of the loaf here and there. And then they put it together when they learn the songs which overlap as well?

Pour sauter du coq a l'ane. est-ce-que tu as un lien quelconque ave L'ile Maurice, par hazard, etant du Quebec?

dennis

non aucun lien, pourquoi? t'es français?

What you said about the kids being showed a phrase or a chord, speaks to what seems to be transmission of bytes/little bites of the loaf here and there. And then they put it together when they learn the songs which overlap as well?

Like I said there are pros and cons to their approach; it is an extremely simple approach, but the main problem is that they generally have to figure things out on their own ; like i said, those who are really intuitive generally figure things out and then end up being high level musicians, but a lot of them who are not as intuitive get stuck in a rut and end up not being good musicians at all... In such instances though, they can actualyl still play the guitar, and the things they know how to play, they play really well, even if it's always going to be the same.

I know that on youtube, people are used to seeing only the hot shots, but when you've been to some of the campsites or towns, you really get to see the big picture; they're not all prodigies haha

That said (and I've talked about this before in the past) even the "worst" musicians play with the "sound" , the right hand technique, the rhythm sound, the phrasing, the vibrato, the touch, that certain je ne sais quoi... You can close your eyes and be able to tell that it's a Gypsy, especially when they play rhythm... So that's very interesting...

I think i've given this example many times, but I jammed with this guy once on Nuages, and he played the melody and I played rhythm, after the melody he did a little solo, then when it was my turn to solo, he repeated the first 4 bars of the song over and over hahahaha

Toneranger

Salut Denis,

Pas francais non, j'ai beaucoup d'amis d'origine chinoise de l'ile Maurice qui sont au Quebec maintenant.

Hey that's a funny thing re the not so hot shots... I hadn't realized that they don't get that much exposure, you're right that does tend to redress the picture. I saw this interview with Bireli where he said that he kept having to buy new 'diamants' for his record player because he was slowing Django down. This must have been in the early 70s... Wow, that's dedication, talk about transcribing back then!

Enjoy your playing/youtube channel and look forward to more of it.

A plus,
TR