Patenotte 260

pickitjohn

C Patenotte 260

Found this listed on ebay and won the auction.

Came from a dude Jeff in Chi-town.

Michael Bauer could this be the :

I had one of these and I have always regretted selling it. I bought mine when I played it up against two 1980's Favinos, and it just destroyed both of them in every way...tone, volume, and vibe. /quote]

Funny thing is it was listed as a Patonette Gypsy Jazz Guitar not PATENOTTE

This is from some forum searches here for Patenotte 260
that Michael Bauer had post recommending a guitar:

Here's why I bought it: I was sitting at Jacques' house with my pal Ed McPhail playing just about everything Jacques had. We were playing two early 80's Favino's when I asked Jacques if I could try the Patenotte. He brought it out, and it simply killed both Favinos! Ed and I were astonished! I was there to try a '30's Busato that I ended up buying, so I had him throw the Patenotte into the deal. It was louder than the Favinos, had better tone than either (a really rich sound...go check out the video Michael put on YouTube). I couldn't pass it up. And I love Favinos, having two post-80's J.P's and a Jacques, but that little Patenottewas a monster! The two Favinos were exiled to Francois Charle's shop in Paris.

Now I have played a few Patenottes that were just ordinary, but if you get your hands on a good one, they can hang with the Big Dogs, and they have a certain panache. Scale length isn't the be-all-and-end-all. MIne was plenty loud!

I have quite a few vintage guitars, and what I love about Claude's best work is that you get real vintage tone in a modern guitar. It was a 1940's Louis Patenotte that got me hooked on vintage guitars in the first place. Claude's work is as good, and reputedly more consistent. But stay with the top models (260 or 258) for you best chance to get a giant-slayer.


I had one of these and I have always regretted selling it. I bought mine when I played it up against two 1980's Favinos, and it just destroyed both of them in every way...tone, volume, and vibe. There's really nothing better sounding in the price range, and you frequently have to go quite a bit up in price to get a guitar that sounds better. Yes, the Eastern Tzigane looks are gaudy, but that's the way it comes. I just played a 100+ year-old guitar from Bulgaria this weekend, and it had a big butterfly inlaid into the top, so there is some tradition to it. Yes, I know Claude was working in France, but he was clearly going for the East-European look with the 260. I think the only thing I didn't love about this guitar was that the neck was a bit too narrow for my taste. It was deep enough, just narrower than my other guitars. Oh, yes...and the 9th fret marker, which I had moved to the 10th, and it was done so well it was impossible to see by anyone but the player. This one already has the 10th fret dot, so all the better. /quote]

Anyone know this Guitar?

thanks pickitjohn

Michael Bauer

This was not my old guitar, if that's what you mean. Jeff called me and we spoke a few times, and he decided to try this one based on my experiences. We tried to get together a few times, but one or the other was always busy, then I just never heard from him again. So I can't tell you if this one is good or not. If Jeff just sold it, I'm guessing he either didn't like it, or gave up on gypsy jazz

Mine was sold through Michael here at Djangobooks. I have no idea where it is or who has it.

pickitjohn

Michael thanks for your reply. I was just hoping it was your old guitar. I'll update the thread when the guitar arrives to evaluate the "Butterfly Baby"

Thanks pickitjohn

Joli Gadjo

I know this guitar, that's my old Patenotte. This was a great guitar and served me well for several years.
I hope you will like it.

pickitjohn

Hey J G

Your right about it being your old guitar. Whoever purchased it from you wasn't happy with the skinny fretboard and wound up selling it to Jeff in Chi town wanna be Gypsy Jazzer who put it up on ebay. I love the tone it's not as loud as my Gitane John Jorgenson. Not sure if a new bridge and higher action my be needed. Kinda on the fence with it right now. I don't have much experience with any GJ models but do know that the overtones with the gitane is something I'm wanting to get behind me. I had hopes this would do it but miss the Volume of the Gitane. The fretboard does seem feel strange especially higher up the frets. I do find myself play stuff I I never play before with ease, ( I like that ) came with a great case and both Gypsy Picking & Rhythm plus strings.

Why did you decide to part with it? :?:

Any Thoughts would be appreciated.

Pickitjohn

Joli Gadjo

I don't have much experience with Asian guitars, although I am sure your Gitane is great.
Nonetheless, I should say that the Patenotte had been one of my best guitars for a long time. Even though I have bought and sold several guitars, I had always kept that one has my most reliable instrument: tone, playability and even volume. What brand of strings are you using? light or medium? This might make a difference.
During my quest of the ideal guitar, I found a wonderful 1950s Castelluccia. My friend Craig Bumgarner built the perfect copy of it. I got addicted to it, and I got addicted to the long scale. Since I can only keep so many guitars, I had to let this one go. This is a good guitar.

pickitjohn

Hey JG thanks for getting back to me.

Strings that I just put on are Argentine 11's.
They are what came with the guitar. I have the 10's on the Gitane.
Any special things you recall about picking or picks? Seems like a lot more heavy picking to get volume almost to the point of getting string buzz. Do you recall the hight of the action when you had it?
Do you know any other history of the guitar.

Pickitjohn

Joli Gadjo

I think I am the first buyer of this guitar. It was made mid 2000s, maybe around 2005. I brought it from France. This is the later generation of guitars built by Patenotte as the neck has radius and it has mustaches and a conventional bridge. That's the top of the line built by Patenotte.
Indeed this guitar requires a good GJ technique and a strong right hand: that really gives it a wide range of volume / tone control. Since you have Michael's book this should be easy to achieve.
You'll get a better tone and a lower action with light strings, and this should not affect the volume. I usually either use Argentines or D'addario Silk and Steel.
The action used to be around 2.5mm, maybe a tad higher.

pickitjohn

JG glad to have got your old guitar she's been well loved. Great Shape
8)
That's cool, I'll give the lighter strings a try. Playing with a Wegan Trimus 3.0 or 4.25 made a big difference in the volume. Have been playing mandolin for years and got pretty used to the shape of the Dawg picks. I find the Pointy style picks rotate when I'm playing and I usually wind up playing with the round side. :roll: May need to relearn to pick with the point, it does sound brighter.

Any chance there's any video's of you playing "The Patenotte" posted out there? :?:

Merci
pickitjohn

pickitjohn

ghost signatures on the top of the guitar
:?:
Hey JG, not wanting to be a pest. I just got back from seeing a Luthier that is in San Antonio Tx @ Guitar Tex John Thurston who work with Jacques gypsy guitars some years before coming to Texas.
While we were checking out the guitar I noticed Three ghost signatures on the top of the guitar above the fretboard between the soundhole and rope binding.
For sure one is Dorado Schmitt. Looks like before the guitar had the finish applied three people signed the guitar maybe on a piece of paper placed over the top. Did you ever notice the signitures or know anything about them? I'm gonna try and see if there more legible with a black light.

Thanks pickitjohn

Joli Gadjo

Dorado comes quite often to the US. In 2006 or 2007 he came for performance / clinic / jam. I met with him and his son Samson. They both signed the guitar, and played it for a song. I forgot about the 3rd one. As it started to fade, I eventually removed them, and forgot about it.
I honestly thought I had got rid of it completely, but since you can even read them: it must not be. If your luthier has some orange or lemon oil, or something similar this should remove the ghosts.