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Crepuscule : help me, theory guys

kevingcoxkevingcox Nova Scotia✭✭✭✭ Dupont MD50
edited July 2013 in Gypsy Jazz 101 Posts: 298
Okay, near the beginning of melodie au crepuscule there is a little dim run something like...

E--------------------10---9----5
B---6----9----12---12---10---7
G---7---10---13----------------
D--------------------------------
A
E

I hope that is enough for people to recognize what I'm talking about. I don't want to argue over how or where they're played, but I'm fairly confident those are the notes Django (and many since) play.
The first 3 shots there are (to my mind) a dim run over A7... but the wrong dim! The dim I should be using over A7 is C#/E/G/ et al, but this is F etc. It obviously works and sounds awesome, so what am I missing here? Is it because the D sounds lead into the tonic? Am I just hearing it wrong?
djangology
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Comments

  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
  • kevingcoxkevingcox Nova Scotia✭✭✭✭ Dupont MD50
    Posts: 298
    Of course, thanks DC.
  • Posts: 3

    I know this an old thread, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway. According to my old Walter Piston Harmony book, this is a non-dominant diminished seventh chord, also called a raised supertonic, where the root and third of a II minor seventh chord are are raised chromatically, i.e. the Em7 (E,G,B,D) becomes E# diminished 7th (E#, G#, B, D) which resolves to the I chord, D (F#, A, A, D). The E# is spelled like that because it is leading up to an F# in the D major chord. Likewise for the G# going to an A. I know it's enharmonically a D diminished, but the spelling is important, as it opens the door to extensions, which are usually played by instinct anyway. But the original poster asked about the theory behind it.

    Lango-DjangoBucoJSantasteffo
  • Posts: 3,535

    Love this post, Will. Would also like to hear more about that tailpiece on Don's guitar. That a Dunn guitar as far as I can tell. They actually recorded an album together it looks like. If you know of some links with his music post it, Will. Would like to listen to his playing.

    vanmalmsteen
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • billyshakesbillyshakes NoVA✭✭✭ Park Avance - Altamira M10
    Posts: 641

    Ha ha Will. Vancouver ~99...I was there! Thanks for the share.

  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,678

    Yes, it is a custom made Michael Dunn guitar circa mid 70’s, I believe.

    You are right about that tailpiece, Buco,wow!

    How did I not notice that?

    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    edited August 20 Posts: 1,678

    OK, I don't want to take the risk of sharing too much, so I've just deleted all the posts that might annoy Don.

    But here's a closeup of that beautiful tailpiece...


    and here's a clip of the Ogilvie Brothers from around 1992... brother Brian Ogilvie is clarinetist with the dark hair, brother Kenny is on bass...and Don is on electric guitar...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2E2EtJPYJg

    BucoJSantavanmalmsteenBones
    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • billyshakesbillyshakes NoVA✭✭✭ Park Avance - Altamira M10
    Posts: 641

    ...and Michael Dunn himself on rhythm guitar if I am not mistaken.

  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,678

    Thanks, Billy, I would never have known that…

    How do you know Michael Dunn?

    Did you once live in Vancouver?

    I’ve never actually met Michael though we corresponded a lot about 15 years ago when he built my guitar.


    Will

    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • billyshakesbillyshakes NoVA✭✭✭ Park Avance - Altamira M10
    Posts: 641

    Hey Will,

    I lived in the Pacific NW in the latter part of the 90s-early 00s. Would cross the border to BC often for either snowboarding at Whistler-Blackcomb or to go out on the weekends in Vancouver. Michael Dunn was still an active luthier at the time, and he had some pretty creative designs including checkerboard patterns and artistic shapes. (See his Picasso influenced guitars). He even had his own resonance chamber design. They were pretty unique. (Alex Bishop is one of the luthiers today that I see that is willing to blend this level of art into his guitars). Shelley Park learned at some point from him. It was during this time (early 00s) that I had her build my Park guitar.

    I never met Michael, but he is a very unique looking guy so I thought I recognized him in your video, especially knowing that it was filmed in BC. Tell us about your Dunn.

    -Bill

    Buco
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