Question about learning a Django Solo

anthon_74

Hey there,

I'm about to start working out Django's Honeysuckle rose 1938 Solo by EAR. This will be the first time I've attempted to learn a solo without the use of Tab. I will be using transcribe software to assist me.

So my question to those who have done this before is - What are the PROS and CONS of writing the notes out on Tab paper as you go ? On the one hand I'm a bit worried about my memory failing me, but on the other hand, I don't want to add too much extra time to an already time consuming practice.

Thanks,

Anthony

Jazzaferri

The way I learn them is to listen to it until I can sing whistle hum whatever it c.....horus at a time or the whole thing at once ....depending on how long ....then I figure out how I want to play on guitar and hola.....

Transcribing the notes is good to but tab, well there are several options at times for fingerings and until you have the solo down how do you know how you want to play it.....unless you are going to tape two fingers together as some have done

My $0.02 FWIW

Way easier on sax btw..but no tab ..only one of each note :shock: t

adrian

anthon_74 wrote:

What are the PROS and CONS of writing the notes out on Tab paper as you go ?

Pros:

* Writing it down it protects your "investment." If you spend a bunch of time transcribing something, and you don't write it down, you'll likely forget it at some point. I've gotten burned by this many times... If you write it down, you can come back to it a week or a year later and remember what was going on.

* You can share it with other people.

Cons:

* Takes more time.

May I recommend Soundslice for your transcription needs? Here's Honeysuckle Rose, and here's how to transcribe. The benefit is: the Soundslice transcription process breaks it down into two parts -- identifying note locations and identifying note pitches -- and, done that way, it's pretty hard to mess up. And it's free. :-)

anthon_74

Hey Andrew !

So I partially took your advice and have been writing it down by hand. Once I tab it out by hand I will try to figure out soundslice and share what I came up with. I decided to start by hand because the sound quality of my CD version is much better than the video version so I can hear the individual notes better. There are LOTS of notes Django plays that are hard to hear as it.

In terms of my original question, thought, I will say that now that I have tabbed some of it out on paper, i like writing it down MUCH better. It get's in my head quicker, and it really helps on some of Django's long soloing lines, so I don't forget where I am.

Once I'm done doing it by hand I will put it on sound slice.

Cheers!
Anthony

dennis

i used to write stuff down in the beginning, but i don't do it anymore. I usually only write it down when people hire me to do transcriptions. It definitely helps improve my reading abilities (I write in standard notation and try to follow general notation rules)

The reason why i don't notate it is to train my memory and also to constantly rely on my ears. Even when I did write things down, if I forgot something, I would retranscribe it and not even look at what I had written.

I find that the more I transcribe the more my ears get better and sometimes I hear things that I didn't hear before. I also give the same example, but when i learned django's minor swing solo 13 years ago; i had trouble getting the intro chords going into the solo and i thought it was something that i wasn't, then i came back to the solo a few years later, and heard it differently, it was closer to the real thing but not quite, then a few years passed again and then i suddenly heard it correctly: E9#5! It was like magic, one of those AHA moments!

Also ear training is more than just about hearing notes, it's about being able to hear nuances .. another such example is I'll see you in my dreams, that part where django alternates between the B and E strings on the note E... It was not until a few years ago that i was able to get really close to what django was really doing.

my 2 cents anyway

kevingcox

What's the exchange rate on Chang cents these days, anyway? We might be able to pay off Greece's debts with a thread or two.

anthon_74

stuart wrote:

Second - and it took me a long time to really appreciate the value of this - sheet music also gives you the rhythmic score. Tab is just a series of notes - it's the rhythm that gives them form and meaning.

Well, I'm not nearly good enough at reading music to write it out, BUT, I make my own TAB paper that has the counts written at the bottom of each measure like - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & . So I just line up the notes with the actual number beat it happens on.

Dennis - I'm not there yet. I need to write stuff down I think. I've burned a few too many brain cells to rely on memory. And after a lifetime of rock and roll, I'm only now starting to hear melody and harmony in a gypsy jazz context.

Plus if I write it I can share it.

Anthony

anthon_74

Okay Dennis, after having tabbed out the entire Honeysuckle rose guitar solo, I realize what you mean about committing it to memory helping you learn it better...

Here's what happened - The first page of the solo I had actually already memorized before I intended to write it out, then the last 3 pages I wrote out as I learned it.

When I was done writing the whole thing out (only took about 3 hours total) I discovered that, with the exception of the first page, I couldn't really play the solo, and had to go back to each individual phrase and relearn it from my own TAB.

SO, while writing it out is actually quicker, you don't KNOW the solo very well, and have to go back and learn it from your own TAB.

this surprised me a bit.

Cheers!

Anthony

Jazzaferri

notation and tab are IMO best used to record stuff one hears in one's head.

Dennis's comments resonate strongly with me. Learn what you want to learn first, then write it down. Whther one does it as I do, being able to hum or sing and then figure it out on guitar, or figure it out on guitar or a combination. If it is in your head, you know it, then you have to learn it on guitar, which if one is proficient at scales and such only takes an hour or so of working out the difficult bits.


if one isn't proficient at scales and arps ...proibably better to learn it on guitar as you go.

Jeff Moore

I learned to read and write only when I wanted to win a classical guitar scholarship. Didn't win, but the stuff I learned expanded my ideas a lot.
When it comes to popular music and improvisation though, the tendency to want to get it "right" or "accurate" can detract from the time it takes to get the nuance and technique it takes to make it "rock" or in this case "swing". And as Dennis shows, he couldn't even hear the right thing for years, which begs the question of what value his writing it down to begin with would have had. Ditto for me.
Especially with improvisation, you have to "own" the sound, and that only comes from practice on the guitar itself. Getting finer and grainier bits of technique, phrasing, and chord change data in to your brain cells through your ears, and physical training in your hands. Its a huge undertaking by itself.
Writing music or tab, playing music, and computer literacy regarding music are separate skills. I think we can rest assured that Django was poor and nill at two of the three, and that his sound was achieved with prodigious and creative hands on neck time. It was "ear training" almost in its entirety.
I think he was ear training as he performed. He is certainly composing his improvs in the moment many times.
Even the mid-beginning player can compose on the fly a little, if they allow themselves to compose while they are practicing. The "ear" can hear possibilities before the fingers play it. In a best of times the "ear" and fingers unite and some other creative brain function is able to come out. Now you can compose to the extent your "hands on neck technique" has been enabled through practice. At that point reading and writing would only be a trap unless you compose on paper first, though I've never seen people reading GJ.

Jazzaferri

Good thoughts..just keep in mind people learn differently...some need to learn whole solos, some short phrases...some need to learn by ear some by tab or notes.....and then there's all those in betweeen

One of the most valuable lessons in life I learned is how I learned stuff the easiest....for me its mostly ear with a bit of written support....short phrases...I will put em together in my own way. In 55 years of music i think I have learned like a dozen solo's note for note....the only one I can recall today is first 3 or 4 of django's blues clair and bird's kc blues...what I mostly. Remember is the feel, the gist of the conversation so to speak.