Columbia Chronicle gypsy jazz article

adrian

Our forum's own Michael Bauer was quoted extensively in this college newspaper article about the Chicago gypsy jazz scene:

http://www.columbiachronicle.com/arts_and_culture/article_01b39992-908b-11e3-bf99-001a4bcf6878.html

Buco

Great article, thanks.

I'm surprised with this statement though, by Boston College ethnomusicologist Donald James:
Gypsy jazz isn’t experiencing the same rebirth abroad as it is here in the states, James said. While players grow and expand on the Gypsy jazz sound, the resurgence is lost on the French, who are distancing themselves from it.
“I think stylistically, jazz musicians in France no longer identify with it, even guitarists,” James said. “They’re making references to John Scofield, to Joe Pass and more contemporary players, whereas the Reinhardt style seems a bit outdated. Discursively it remains very, very important.”

Really, French guitarists go out of their way not to be associated with Django?
Or is it simply the same situation as around the US, the matter of market share and what's currently "in", with contemporary jazz players captivating more fans and players?

Buco

Michael Bauer

I think Donald James needs to get out more. I'm sure there are some French jazz guitarists who are guided more by John Scofield (seriously?) than Django, but I wonder how many of them are selling records or getting gigs outside the local bookstore? Sebastien Giniaux is the only name that immediately comes to mind, and even he plays Django tunes a fair bit. Maybe I live in a cocoon, but I haven't met a French musician yet that wan't influenced by Django. Maybe I need to get out more, too!

And for the record, I had much more interesting stuff to say than got quoted (We talked two hours). I did buy the QHCF LP in 1969, though. Drove my dorm mates nuts!

kevingcox

I kind of agree with Mr. James. I have felt for a while that there is a little push against being "too" traditional and have gotten the sense that many players are trying to break out of that shell and prove themselves as more than "just" gypsy jazz musicians. All styles will evolve but I think at this particular moment there is what I think of as a Birellification of the music. :-)

That is certainly not to say that anything is being lost, I think the focus has moved in general at the moment and it will surely return as all things in art are cyclical.

Buco

@kevingcox

It's one thing to break the traditional mold, advance the sound etc, but something entirely else to not wanna be associated with the name of an artist.
Birelli has advanced his music and playing more than anyone, but I doubt he would object to being mentioned in the same circle with Django. Just as any other player in France I'm guessing.

Michael Bauer

Kevin, you may well be right, but which French guitarists are pushing and what have they said that would lead you to believe so? I admit that most of the guitarists I meet from France are at Djangoesque events, but all of them still pay reverent homage to Django. Even someone like Wrembel, who has gone completely in his own direction is still rooted in Django and freely admits it.

I'm not saying that the young French guys aren't branching out and bringing other influences and much creativity into the music (Look at Olivier Kikteff and Benoit Convert!), but I still hear Django at the center of it, not Joe Pass. James seems to think the rejection is recent. I think there may have been a move away from Django for many years, but in the last 15 years, I perceive the movement to be towards Django, not away. I spent enough years in academia to have observed that, scientific and engineering disciplines excepted, that most studies are about twenty years behind what's actually happening outside. It's like of the nature of the beast, since you can't study something until there is a body of work to study, and that takes awhile. I'm guessing that Mr. James will suddenly discover a massive Django revival in about five more years.

I pay a lot of attention to guitars themselves. Can you think of any other type of guitar that has suddenly blossomed in numbers and in number of luthiers and manouche guitars in the past ten years? They make them because of demand. Electrics, arch tops, flat tops, classical guitars are sold in large numbers, but those numbers aren't going up like they were, say, in the 1960s. Manouche guitar sales have soared, the number of bands playing gypsy jazz has as well. Things may be beginning to diversify and head in different direction. They always do as more people with different backgrounds and interests get involved. But I don't see any deliberate distancing from Django in any of it, at least yet. And for John Scofield???

adrian

I was a bit sad to see the particular video clip they used at the end of the article. It wasn't particularly gypsy jazzy, and I worry that people will hear that and get the wrong impression.

kevingcox

Michael, I am the absolute first to admit that I am a jazz troglodyte, I am very narrow minded in terms of what I like and listen to. I couldn't tell you who or what joe pass or jon scofield sound like and I am a million percent comfortable with that. If I ever hear something by them that interests me enough to figure out who it is (like I did with Django) then I will have a reason to care, but until that time I have plenty of other things to listen to. I don't fault anyone for liking that stuff, I just don't.

That said, go check out http://samsonschmitt.com/ and listen to the music you hear when the page opens. I am not suggesting that Mr. Schmitt is in some kind of Django denial but the music I hear to my ear has less to do with the GJ genre than what I associate with more american jazz sounds, like in the video Adrien mentioned. I don't really listen to that stuff so I can't split hairs over who it sounds like but it isn't trad GJ to my ears.

For another example take Adrien Moignard. He can play like anybody's business and there are tracks of his that I think are stunning and brilliant. On the other hand, I have an album of his that I have yet to make it past the first three or four tracks... things start to move away from my narrow band of enjoyment and I find myself switching over to a Moreno album pretty darn quickly. That is not a knock on Adrien, and again I don't think he is "denying" the Django roots but he is definitely pushing the boundaries beyond that style.

Now I can't speak with such amazing perspective about the last 15 years like you can because I probably only discovered this musical style about 10 years ago, and a lot of my observations are based on experiences through the internet but I can say that at my first Django in June last year I was suprised at how little Tchavolo, Fapy or even Django I was hearing and how so many guys sounded like Birelli.

Stringswinger

I loved Alfonso's version of "Alone Together" in that video clip, but it was certainly not "Gypsy Jazz", it was pretty straight ahead sounding. That said Gypsy Jazz can be quite expansive. IMO, if Django is God, Bireli is Jesus Christ who has come to save us from the sin of playing the same corny licks over the same over played tunes!

I dig Django and Bireli quite a bit, almost as much as I dig Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass. It is all the same thing, though some of it is a bit more "evolved". I like most of it, it is jazz guitar and I am a jazz guitarist. Some of the very modern stuff is too "evolved" for my taste, but others may dig it.

My band, Hot Club Pacific has been playing what I call "Gypsy Jazz with a modern American accent" for a decade now. We always have a 4 to the bar guitar rhythm, we swing like nobody's business and play many songs from both the traditional and modern Gypsy jazz repertoire. People dig it and we play about 80 paid gigs a year. I bet that if we played the same 40 tunes out of the Robin Nolan gig book on harsh sounding Gitane guitars, we would not be where we are.

Guys like Samson Schmidtt and Ninine Garcia (both of whom I have played with) are great JAZZ guitarists and think of themselves that way. George Benson, Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino and Joe Pass are heroes to the European Gypsy guitarists. And that is exactly as it should be.

Cheers,

Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com

pickitjohn

Checked out the article, read all the post, got thru about 45 seconds of the Alfonso's version of "Alone Together", not my cup of anything, no thanks. Strange choice of video to put with a write up about the Gypsy jazz scene.
Everyone has to follow their dreams. If it's got that swing and grabs me like Django stuff, I can't wait to hear it.
I still need to go work on some more corny DJANGO licks to evolve, I guess.

pick on
pickitjohn

thickpick

kevingcox wrote: »

I couldn't tell you who or what joe pass or jon scofield sound like"...

A bit off topic, but you should totally check out Joe Pass, in particular his duets with Ella Fitzgerald. It's great, great swinging stuff.

But one example: