Archtops and Selmacs

Stringswinger

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iK4GF2GD1XI

IMO archtops and selmacs are both equally viable tools when playing Gypsy jazz (I use both). Stochelo and David Reinhardt prove it!

Cheers,

Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com

Bob Holo

Marc,

No need to defend your archtops, man. You're among friends here & anyway, they're just different tools which offer you different ways to get the music out of your head and into the room.

At the end of the day, the music's the thing. Do what inspires you.

Stringswinger

Bob,

Over the years, I have seen many posts on this forum by "experts" who claim that you need a selmac to play Gypsy jazz. Every once in a while, I like to dispel that myth!

Cheers,

Marc

Jazzaferri

Same deal as you have yo have a Martin to play bluegrass. I rather think its more how you play than what you play. My $0.02 anyhoo I have at least one of em all except solid body electric. From classical to my old Kay electro acoustic. They are just tools of the trade. Although some try to turn it into a religion :laugh:

Franz Morales

@Jazzaferri, this is the video you mentioned in the other thread? it's the same one I watched

anyway, after I get my selmac style guitar, I plan to save for an archtop next. I plan to record myself and it'll be interesting to do two solos, one on acoustic and the other on electric (actually I'm just justifying my craving for both guitars haha).

Joli Gadjo

Gear is most often associated with a style because of the iconic artists who play the style. At the end of the day you can either play Gypsy Jazz tunes with any instruments, or you can play any tunes with GJ instruments. Whether it's the music, the instruments or the vocabulary / technique you're using, it's all related to GJ.
Will Minor Swing played with electric or arch top guitars still be GJ? Will Oh When the Saints played with GJ guitar be GJ?
Will Hamburgers or pancakes cooked French style be American food or French food?

Jazzaferri

Well, I have to say I like playing GJ on sax :rofl:

Bones

Generally, acoustic archtops are great for rhythm but don't have the cutting power for single note work (but of course there are always exceptions).

Michael Bauer

Marc, I don't disagree with you. A great player playing in the style, will sound "right" (whatever that is) on just about any instrument. That said, I have yet to come across a traditional acoustic arch top that I didn't think was wanting, tonally. They all sound thin and reedy to me, without a lot of endearing tonal qualities. Every one left me cold with the exception of a couple of di Mauros and my beloved Couesnon, which are all gypsy guitars anyway. That said, I love my '39 ES-150, because I love that Charlie Christian pickup!

But if you can get an arch top to sound good, bless ya! And if you can, I don't see why it shouldn't be used for any type of musical style you want.

Al Watsky

Its all good if it sounds good.
If you set up the upper tier of Archtops for acoustic use they are quite loud.
Mostly though no one sets them up that way.
James D'Aquisto was known to favor high actions on his guitars and phosphor bronze strings. When set up with the string action at 6/64-8/64 they are powerful . Surprisingly so.
Its said by folks that knew him that James D. wasn't a gentle player, he liked to hit the guitar hard so he could hear and feel the qualities of the instrument. He had the temperament of an aggressive rhythm player .
So his set up sent most of his customers to other technicians for the final set up. If you brought it to Jimmy you were going to get his set up.
I've had a couple of these in the shop recently. One set up for an avant jazz composer with medium flat wounds and very low and an earlier non cut away model which I got to set up for phosphor bronze strings and acoustic use. They both sound great lots of voice and a great balance.
The one set up for acoustic use was loud as can be.
Louder than most any Archtop I've played and nearly as loud as a GJ guitar, so loud in fact that it could be used for the purpose I think.
Kinda pricy though !
Most Archtops are intended for electric use and are setup too low to function correctly in acoustic settings. Back in the day , in this case the first third of the 20th century rhythm players set up their guitars much differently then the average guy set up his gear from the 50's on.

Stringswinger

Personally, I play most of my Gypsy jazz gigs in noisy restaurants or corporate events where a lot of amplification is needed. I find that if amplification is needed, an electric archtop is simply a better tool. Frankly, I have yet to play any Selmac (and I have played about a dozen Selmers, as many Favinos and a Busato) that sounds as good to me as my 1963 ES-175D or either of my vintage D'Angelicos. In the video that is linked in the first post of this thread, David's 175 sounds way better to me than whatever Selmac it is that Stochelo is playing (an Eimers?)

Where Selmacs work well for me is the purely acoustic gig. The cutting power is useful in that application and so I keep a couple in my "toolbox".

My gut feeling is that those musicians who proclaim that a particular tool is necessary to play a particular style of music are generally "sidewalk commandos" who do not get to play very many paying gigs. What they lack in paying gigs, they make up for with "expert" opinions on online forums.