Help dating a pre-war ES-150

Campusfive

Hey all, I'm trying to figure out the story of my ES-150.
I'd been disconcerted originally about the lack of a stamped serial number on the back of the headstock. But the original tailpiece, flat back, and most other cosmetic details indicated that it was original, and not a later conversion from a L-50 or something. Given the notched pickup, I'd guessed it was a 1939.

Well, I just noticed that there's an FON stamped on the back under the treble F hole.
234 C 24

Based on my googling, a "C" would indicate 1937, and would thus explain the lack of a head stock serial.
I've been able to see some scans of the gibson ledgers online, but nothing that would cover the specific batch I'm looking for. Anybody got any ideas or resources? Thanks!

jonpowl

From: http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/bits/gibson-turns-120

Gibson Goes Electric

Gibson’s electric guitar legacy dates back to 1936 when the company unveiled its ES-150, the first commercially successful Spanish-style guitar with an electric pickup. (The “ES” stood for Electric Spanish, and the “150” referred to its $150 price tag, which included an amplifier and cable.) It was the endorsement of jazz guitarist Charlie Christian and his revolutionary bebop single-string playing style that helped put the ES-150 on the musical map. The bar-style pickup used on the ES-150 produced a clear, biting tone, but the hum it generated was a problem that wouldn’t be fully solved until the 1950s with Gibson’s humbucking pickups. The company spun off several variations of the ES-150, and in 1940 began installing Alnico pickups—predecessors to the P-90 pickup that’s still in production today.

Contact Gibson directly, they have been extremely helpful with my questions related to production dates, etc. Try Daryl.Mosley@gibson.com
Gibson Customer Service
1-800-4GIBSON
www.gibson.com

Campusfive

Email to Daryl sent. Thanks.

Michael Bauer

Jonathan. First, let me thank you for asking about this, because it made me did into it pretty hard, and I found out something new about my own ES-150. You'll mostly read that the CC pickup was used through 1939, but actually, it was used until mid-1940.

Your guitar is definitely a 1937. Batch 234 (most batch numbers have four digits, but not all), sequence number 24.

Think nothing about the notched pickup. It's irrelevant, as many players notched their guitars after the fact. That's how Gibson got the idea...

My personal ES-150 was sold as a 1939 by Archtop guitars. Joe was wrong. Mine is actually from early 1940, before the pickup switch. Mine has the stamped headstock: FGE 2180. "F" indicates 1940, "G" is Gibson and "E" is electric. Mine has the v-shaped, somewhat slimmer neck. Yours should have a fat D- or U-shaped necked (they were all different, being hand-made).

Oddly, mine came with an un-notched pickup. Either they forgot, or they were using up old parts at the end of the run. My guitar tech notched mine to balance the sound.

Old Gibsons, like alot of things from the era (including Selmers!), are not consistent. Never assume that one item, like a pickup notch, tells you anything. They were hand-notched, and if your builder was in a hurry that day, or he thought that particular guitar had a balanced sound, it might not be done to any given guitar. Ditto necks. If a guitar was ordered with a specific neck profile, Gibson would make it. The only absolute rule is that there are no absolute rules.

Anyway, thanks for your post. It made me did into my own guitars past, and I learned new things about it, and about the history of Gibsons that I didn't know before.

If I can find out anything about your batch and sequence dates, I'll let you know. If Gibson gives you an answer, by all means please share it with us.

BTW, I wanted to edit this to add that your CC pickup and mine are very different. Yours has 4000 turns of #38 wire (about 4,000 ohms); mine has 10,000 turns of #42 wire (about 8,000 ohms) I'd love to have a chance to compare them side-by-side. That would be fascinating.

Campusfive

A user a named @zizala on the jazzguitar.be forum provided this:


So Aug 12, 1937. So I know the body is a 1937 pretty conclusively, now I just gotta figure out if this is the original 1937 pickup or what.

Michael Bauer

The link didn't work. Could you try it again?

If you can see the coil wire, it will tell you what you want to know. If it's 38 wire, it's almost certainly original. If it's 42 wire, it's not.

Campusfive

Check again, I fixed it.

Michael Bauer

Thanks! Now I want to see what that guy has for the first half of 1940.