ToneRite device?

Al Watsky

I don't have time to read that whole article on the study of the Tone Right.
Their conclusion seems to be that the changes before and after were as much from the actual playing from player evaluation as from the Tone Right.
So my conclusion is, Play Your Guitar.
Nom' sayin' ?
I used a brand spanking new AJL guitar on a few tracks on my new CD. Must have had 200 hours on it at the time. It broke in after about 40 hours at least to the degree that was necessary to clarify the tone to that first stage.
Thats about all your really going to have to do. Put 40 hours into the thing.
The best break in is playing the Darn thing !
Unless you have a million guitars or one guitar and no time to play it ?
Just Play It !!

Ryan Rhea

I thought that acoustic guitars, unlike 300 year old violins for example, are at risk of permanently closing down after quite a bit of use. Is this true? If so, I'm not sure I'd want something attached to my guitar vibrating it for hours on end.

Seems like I read somewhere that on flattops (classical and steel) the main area of sound production on the top are two circular areas near the bridge, on either side of it. And that once these areas of the top broke down enough over time from playing the instrument would, in effect, close down permanently.

If this is even true, I have no idea how this applies to archtops.

RR

husy

bopster wrote: »

Study released on Tonerite:

http://www.savartjournal.org/index.php/sj/article/download/22/pdf

It's great to see some scientific study on this. Even though I'm on the skeptical side about TR's effectiveness, I do think the study is missing an element:

Their analytic method seem to be based solely on frequency response in an unspecified (but presumably long) time window.

What they are missing is the transient response (how the sound envelope evolves in the milliseconds and seconds following the pluck, as well as how the audio spectrum evolves during that time). I don't think quantifying the timbre or "guitar's feel" is possible without looking at transient response.

Might have been interesting to look at spectrogram plots for before and after cases (sequence of FFTs in short moving windows, say every 20-50ms).

Michael Bauer

"Either you think it helps or you don't and that's that." Ah, Buco, you're describing religion and/or folk belief, not measurable things. Like those Les Paul pickup bobbins I mentioned earlier.

Correctly stated, it either helps or it doesn't and that's that. Assuming the cited test stands up to peer review, then the TR (or device like it) doesn't seem to help. But we have to have several studies with similar, reproducible results to state that definitively. Still, this is a start, and a reasonably sound one, it would seem.

I would also argue that the brand of the vibrating device can't be stated to matter unless the technology used is fundamentally different.

And Stuart, I agree, science figured out the pendulum "trick" a long time ago. It's a parlor trick for the uninitiated.

The musical instrument industry has made a fortune either convincing players things affect tone that clearly cannot, or by figuring out what players already believe, and building products that cater to those beliefs.

And no one "believes" like a guy who just plunked down a lot of money for something he is convinced makes his guitar/amp sound better. Many of those things actually do affect tone, but just as many do not. A true believer isn't going to be convinced, so matter how much evidence is put in front of him. The power of suggestion is arguably the most powerful influence on the human mind.

Buco

Michael Bauer wrote: »

"Either you think it helps or you don't and that's that." Ah, Buco, you're describing religion and/or folk belief, not measurable things. Like those Les Paul pickup bobbins I mentioned earlier.

Correctly stated, it either helps or it doesn't and that's that.

Yeah, point taken.
But it's interesting to read a comment from someone seemingly knowledgeable on the subject of correct procedures like @husy and wondering about the methodology of measurements.

It's just when it comes to double blind tests using a human ear as a deciding criteria, research as designed falls short the way I see it.
Human ear is non-linear and none of the tests studying the merits of similar devices, gadgets or tweaks don't take that non linearity in consideration. I don't even know that it's possible but according to my wife who's good with statistics you could start with having a person used in testing going through the same scenario at least 3 times on different occasions, controlling environmental conditions as much as possible, to come up with a mean value first.
Hey, there were double blind tests with Stradivarius violins against other vintage and today's contemporary makers and the results had no statistically significant conclusion whatsoever that Stradivarius sounds any better than some other exceptionally well made violin.

Lango-Django

Glad i was able to dig up this old thread... for Christmas somebody gave me an am*z0n gift card and the only thing I saw there that i sorta wanted was this Tonerite gizmo.

I’ve just had it for a week and used it for a few days on both my Michael Dunn and my brand new 2019 Asian D’Angelico Excel-1, and my verdict is... yeah, I can hear a subtle difference in the responsiveness and tone.

I plan to keep using it on one guitar or the other for the next few weeks and see if that does anything good...

... as many posters have mentioned above, this kind of techno gear is very much subject to the Placebo Effect.

But WTF, who says you can’t go ahead and enjoy a little Placebo Effect every now and then? The Jazz Police?

(Damn, I can’t find a “jazz police” emoji...)

Will

Lango-Django

OK, forgive me harping on this old thread, but I think I've finally figured something out... you guys please tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree...?

So let me start by saying, what IS IT about Nat King Cole's voice?

See, I can hit every note that Nat King Cole does, no problem!

And I can even imitate his wonderful relaxed sense of phrasing!

So, if you were to compare our singing, exactly what has Nat King Cole got that I ain't got?

Well, the main difference is that his voice has sparkling overtones above the fundamental tone.

Like, when I sing a middle C, a computer image of MY voice would likely show one of those mountains-with-a-chopped-off top, the kind you might see when visiting Montana or West Virginia...

But a computer image of Nat's voice would show not just the mountain, not just the snowy cap on the top, but also some beautiful birds circling among the clouds high above...

Or perhaps you could compare it to a string bass playing a middle C versus a piccolo playing a middle C....

... you see what I am driving at?

Well, the ToneRite seems to actually be GOOD... at awakening my acoustic guitar's upper harmonic resonance...!!!

Does it change the tone of the fundamental note?

No! Not a bit, that sounds exactly the same to me... with possibly a bit of extra volume? Hard to tell...

But now my guitar seems to have this angelic choir chiming along softly in the background, much like the sound produced by my expensive new top-of-the-line Vega plectrum banjo... extra sparkle...

Now, my guitar already has sort of a reverb-y sound, and this seems to accentuate that sound.

And if that's NOT a sound you are really looking for...

.... because some might call it not just "wet" but "soaked"... then probably the ToneRite gadget is NOT for you.

But if you are a fan of the OVERTONES... then you will probably LIKE this product, as I do!

And that is my respectful submission to the Great ToneRite debate..

Will Wilson

PS Forgot to mention... when I play rhythm guitar, I can easily "lose the sparkle", same as I do with my banjo, ie, by just leaning into the bass string a bit and choking off each chord right after I strike it...

Buco

Thank you Will, I love your summary of the ToneRite.