Acoustic sound on my archtop. Is that possible?

Daniele Belli

Hi,
Im Daniele from Italy and Im a new member of this forum
I want to ask you a question about my new archtop guitar, an Ibanez AF105F. I want to use this guitar with my Gypsy Trio. The sound of the pick up is perfect for the lead parts, but I need a different sound when I accompany the other players, I need the sound as similar as possible to that of a gypsy guitar for the rhythmic parts.
I was reading about pickups installed under the floating bridge (like the K&K Definity System) or a full internal system like the K&K Trinity System.....or there are hundreds of piezo pick up of all type and brand.
Which is the best solution? Does anyone have experience with this?

Thank you to all and sorry for my English

Russell Letson

I haven't had hands on that model Ibanez*, but from the specifications I wouldn't think it easy (or maybe even possible) to get a GJ rhythm sound out of it. First, it's an all-laminate archtop with a humbucking magnetic pickup--an imitation Gibson hollow-body. That should offer a traditional-jazz (Johnny Smith, Joe Pass) texture, but it's going to have a pretty pathetic acoustic sound, which will not be helped by adding a piezo pickup.

Which is not to say that it can't be made to work in a GJ context--just that it's not going to deliver what you hear from a Selmer-style instrument.

* But I do have four archtops with mag pickups. All are solid-carved and designed with acoustic playing in mind, and while they are all excellent American swing guitars, none of them quite replaces my Michael Dunn in a GJ context.

Daniele Belli

Russel you are right. What I meant is that I need a sound least adaptable to Gypsy Jazz. I know that is impossible to replicate the sound of a Selmer archtop. But I've also seen Birelì use an archtop in a gypsy contest...and some even at Django Festival in Samois-sur-Seine (Andreas Oberg, Wawau Adler and others).
I need a suitable sound, not necessarily equal to a Selmer.
However I must say that this guitar has not a bad acoustic sound, It has a very percussive and bright sound, but obviously it does not have much volume. I think that I can obtain something good from that, but I must try with a good piezo....

wim

Archtops can be great for lead but they sound rubbish for gypsy jazz rhythm, and there's nothing to be done about it sorry. No good pickup is going to help that, and certainly not a piezo anything.

Scoredog

While it won't be totally authentic you certainly can play Gypsy Rhythm on an archtop. There was a whole bunch of "Gibson" players who came after Django.

though not perfect here is an example more recent.


Certainly Tommy's acoustic git which is not real authentic in sound either, has a bit more punch but Martin does swing. The most important thing is having your rhythm technique together.

Jazzaferri

Its not the tool you use....but how you use it. Anyone who tells you you can't play GJ style rhythm on an archtop is well........

It wont have the bark of a Selmac style guitar but as long as it gets the point across.....

My DuPont had a Piezo in it when I got it. I find piezo's to be harsh and quacky so I use a DPA 4099 mic and the piezo and have a little 4 channel mackie mixer that I use as preamp and blend the sound to the board. Alternatively I could use a two channel acoustic amp and blend that way if no PA.

Take the lush sound of a stimer type and blend it with a piezo like sound and you can get an ok rhythm sound. Or just mic the thing if it has no onboard pickup already.

Russell Letson

I've tried a piezo on an archtop--to be precise a Fishman bridge on a 1946 Epi Broadway. I was aiming at a plain-old-swing-rhythm texture, but I just couldn't find it with that rig. Went to an old single-coil Rowe Industries and found something I could work with, if I turned the treble way down and cut some of the bass via a Baggs DI. Same rig worked well on a modern archtop.

dennis

the interesting thing is that until these affordable gitane/aria guitars came into the market, many gypsies could not afford GJ guitars, and played on whatever they could get their hands on… classical guitar strung with argentines… flat top guitars strung with argentines.. cheap arch tops..

until a few years ago paulus schafer only owned and played a cheap no name archtop!!! him and his cousin on rhythm guitar played cheap arch tops on his first two albums

Even today, some gypsies don't even own guitars , they have to go to their neighbours to borrow one to practice for a few hours. i've seen that! yet they manage

i guess we should be thankful for whatever we have!

Jehu

Denis, can you comment on the Godin 5th ave for GJ?

Daniele Belli

Thank you all, really.
Yes, this is exactly what I need...that sound of Martin Taylor is perfect.
It doesnt sound the same as a Selmer but it perfect for the rhythm parts!
How can I obtain that sound?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9z9d4qwhA-E

Thank you Denis for your anecdote about Paulus Schafer. Please comment about the Godin's Archtops that you are using for your instructional videos!

Jazzaferri

Many years of playing and if you go to his website and check out his line of guitars you can find out which type pickup. By the sound I think maybe a single coil mounted just behind the fretboard. Although I see a toggle switch at the top of the upper bout so....maybe a piezo or internal mic thing as well???