Need help with tech rider - super frustrated

kungfumonk007

I am so tired of dealing with Engineers who won't listen, who think they know everything, and who make my band play like crap! It is always the same, they crank up the bass, no matter how many times I tell them to turn it down they refuse, the crank up the vocals, so all you hear is bass and vocals. They put a million mics on everything, put 10 monitors on stage and put way too much volume in it all. They put the lead guitar way far back in the mix because they have everything cranked up so loud if they were to put the lead guitar at the half the right level in the mix then it starts feeding back like crazy.

Soooo...

Any help with a tech rider would be appreciated. How would you explain/demand the correct sound in writing so that I can actually get something decent.

BluesBop Harry

That can be a real nightmare... When possible I bring my own engineer. Otherwise our sound will probably be destroyed

kungfumonk007

I was thinking I might start doing that. It is getting really frustrating. When I play with Joscho we've had similar situations but he has a real forceful personality and a name to back it up so he gets what he wants in the end. I feel unless I get something real strongly written into the contract riders I will never get the sound I need. I just don't know quite how to put it that doesn't come across as being a diva/jerk.

bbwood_98

Kung Fu Monk, don't play rock clubs?? Try to tell (or require) them to let you use your amps as monitors. I personally avoid this by having an electric lead player, and tell the sound person that I am the drummer - then lots of vocals, bass, lead guitar (because, you know- electric player, and amps + a little ego = loud) and lots of rhythm guitar too. . . .also, I always, always carry earplugs. Good luck.

dennis

here's my tech rider if it helps:

kungfumonk007

Thanks Denis - that does really help! I actually almost never play in bar/restaurant/club for that very reason and haven't for years :0)

Bones

Hey Kung, same here. It must be a 'pandemic' of deaf sound guys. All bass. WTF??? That's funny, my wife and I always comment that the sound guys must be deaf. The last club we were at we were sticking our fingers in our ears to try to get some relief and the waitress came over, looked at us knowingly, and handed us some earplugs. Saved our lives. Left her a nice tip, waited for our son's set to end, then left. These guys are either deaf or sadistic.

Frank Wekenmann

Although there is no guarantee that it will work, at the beginning of the soundcheck I always play one of my CDs to the Soundguy to give him an impression of what we want to sound like. Most soundguys have no idea how a Selmer is supposed to sound and often try to EQ a Dreadnought out of it.
In my band, we are all also playing with good clip-on mics, so the sound the engineer gets from us doesn't require lots of EQ.
The points in Dennis' rider are all very good (especially insisting that the engineer should not adjust the volumes while the band is playing).
Frank

klaatu

Your tech rider is definitely a help, Denis - thanks! I realize now that I have been giving too little information, my tech riders being little more than a simple seating chart with minimal notes. Gotta get to work on that.

Jon

Without presuming to know more about sound than the people who do it for a living, I am amazed that they consistently try to get more volume than is necessary in any given situation. It makes their job so much more difficult.

I've been on the other side of the fence too - trying to do sound with musicians poorly articulating concerns, not knowing what they want, having terrible mic technique, no dynamic control, or no basic knowledge of how a PA works (which I think we all should have) - but turning everything right up just compounds every potential problem. I have no idea why they do it.

Bones

Hey Jon, good point. Yes besides too much bass it seems to be always way too loud. What's with that???