Chromatic runs

emicad

Hi Michael,
I'm practicing over the chromatic run in your book and I have a question (maybe already posted): I've seen you have transcribed a chromatic run (not entirely chromatic as you note on the book) with 4 notes per string suggesting a two finger approach. What kind of fingering you suggest for a 5 notes per string entire chromatic run?
Thanks

MichaelHorowitz

emicad wrote:

Hi Michael,
I'm practicing over the chromatic run in your book and I have a question (maybe already posted): I've seen you have transcribed a chromatic run (not entirely chromatic as you note on the book) with 4 notes per string suggesting a two finger approach. What kind of fingering you suggest for a 5 notes per string entire chromatic run?
Thanks

It's pretty rare that I do a completely chromatic run on the open strings. They're pretty clumsy at fast speeds and don't sound any better. There's only two places that I can think of Django using them.

1) He often played a pure chromatic run starting on the pitch D on the B string (3rd fret). He would go down chromatically to the open D string. But that works well because you don't have any down strokes on string changes. He uses this in the intro for When the Day is Done and in Improvisation #1.

2) In the waltz Choti (also called Valse Manouche and Naguine), he plays a pure chromatic run from the C# on the A String all the way up to the high E string. Although, we don't know if it's actually Django playing on this recording!

On the ascending runs I just use my first finger for the first fretted note and then slide my second finger up for all the rest of the notes. We can assume that's what Django did, and it works well.

Going down, like on the type of run I mentioned first, I find it easier to finger each note. So I use my third, second, and first finger but then slide the first finger down for the last note. It just works better for me that way.

Good luck!

'm

a

What about the full chromatic run on Minor Swing 1937? It's one of the most difficult to pull off because the relatively slow speed (compared to that of most other chromatic runs) forces you to really dig into each string. In general, they are a lot harder to play at slower tempos. Also, the ascending part is probably one of the hardest to bits to figure out and play.

MichaelHorowitz

I haven't listened to the 37 solo in a while. But I think you're right, that one is truly chromatic when descending. I think the ascending part is a diminished sort of run. I'd have to listen to it again...

But that run is mostly triplets at a slower tempo. Not that it's easy, but if it was a fast sixteenth note run it would be impossible to play as a truly chromatic run.

emicad

Michael Horowitz wrote:

emicad wrote:

Hi Michael,
I'm practicing over the chromatic run in your book and I have a question (maybe already posted): I've seen you have transcribed a chromatic run (not entirely chromatic as you note on the book) with 4 notes per string suggesting a two finger approach. What kind of fingering you suggest for a 5 notes per string entire chromatic run?
Thanks

It's pretty rare that I do a completely chromatic run on the open strings. They're pretty clumsy at fast speeds and don't sound any better. There's only two places that I can think of Django using them.

1) He often played a pure chromatic run starting on the pitch D on the B string (3rd fret). He would go down chromatically to the open D string. But that works well because you don't have any down strokes on string changes. He uses this in the intro for When the Day is Done and in Improvisation #1.

2) In the waltz Choti (also called Valse Manouche and Naguine), he plays a pure chromatic run from the C# on the A String all the way up to the high E string. Although, we don't know if it's actually Django playing on this recording!

On the ascending runs I just use my first finger for the first fretted note and then slide my second finger up for all the rest of the notes. We can assume that's what Django did, and it works well.

Going down, like on the type of run I mentioned first, I find it easier to finger each note. So I use my third, second, and first finger but then slide the first finger down for the last note. It just works better for me that way.

Good luck!

'm

I haven't well understood what you mean with your first example. You're talking about that descending chromatic run from the B string, 4° fret to the A string, 4° fret in when day is done? In this case we have (theorically) to play two consecutive downstrokes in two string changes, B string to G string and D to A strings, so you anticipate another question, how to play this passage, expecially for fast tempos? Using restoke or not? The same is for the minor swing descending chromatic run, all the people have the same question.
In an ascending run (for example Valse Manouche) there is no problem cause all the consecutive downstrokes are sweep strokes except for G string to B string change in which we have a simple alternate change.
Anyway there are more pieces where I've listened Django playing entire chromatic runs, I don't remember now exactly the pieces but I'm sure.
Why you say that valse manouche was called also "naguine"? Maybe I have not understood well but I don't think so... :roll:
I know that "Choti" was the name that Matelo invented (or heard somewhere) to rename the song, as he did on Montagne St. Genevieve, Minch Valse and a lot of other pieces.

emicad

a wrote:

What about the full chromatic run on Minor Swing 1937? It's one of the most difficult to pull off because the relatively slow speed (compared to that of most other chromatic runs) forces you to really dig into each string. In general, they are a lot harder to play at slower tempos. Also, the ascending part is probably one of the hardest to bits to figure out and play.

I've understood what run you're talkin' about and I agree with you is one of the most difficoult passages I've studied playing Django's solos and Gypsy Jazz in general. I suggest to play it with alternate picking because I can't find any different way to play it in a easy way and clear tone, suggestions are appreciated.
Bye

emicad

I've found another thing, I have the book since two years but I've never noticed it! :shock:
In the example 2.2 (Ascending chromatic run) there is on the 4th misure a strange step during the high E string run:

- 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 -

Why? I can't play it this way...I regularry play all the notes until the 19 fret as you suggest but I finish the run obviously with asn upstroke, not a downstroke. I've noticed the thing exactly for this reason.

MichaelHorowitz

emicad wrote:

I haven't well understood what you mean with your first example. You're talking about that descending chromatic run from the B string, 4° fret to the A string, 4° fret in when day is done?

No, the runs starts on the 3rd fret of the B string so you have only four notes on that string. That way the picking is even and you end up changing on an upstroke which is easier.

Using restoke or not?

Always use rest strokes...

The same is for the minor swing descending chromatic run, all the people have the same question.

Again, I haven't listened to that run in a long time. From memory, I think it's played in triplets and it does have a lot of consecutive downstrokes on the string changes. So it's hard, but it's also not that fast. If you get the timing right you can do it. I think most people rush it too much and then screw it up.

Why you say that valse manouche was called also "naguine"? Maybe I have not understood well but I don't think so... :roll:

There is a radio show that used that title...but it's rarely called that.

Good luck!

'm

MichaelHorowitz

emicad wrote:

I've found another thing, I have the book since two years but I've never noticed it! :shock:
In the example 2.2 (Ascending chromatic run) there is on the 4th misure a strange step during the high E string run:

- 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 -

Why? I can't play it this way...I regularry play all the notes until the 19 fret as you suggest but I finish the run obviously with asn upstroke, not a downstroke. I've noticed the thing exactly for this reason.

Sorry, that's a mistake. It should also have the 8th fret.

'm

Carter O`Brien

We had a very cool discussion on this solo and the chromatic run a little while back, at:

viewtopic.php?t=213

I've been working on this crazy run for literally 3 years & still don't have it up to Django's speed, but it's my favorite to use as a warm up when practicing and it's so satisfying when you get the last note right on the ascending part.

emicad

Thanks Michael for your reply