Question regarding cycling through arpeggios

T1mothy

So one of the best things I really forced myself to do some time ago is learning arpeggios. I took the All of me and decided well theres loads of chords, some of them nondiatonic and I simply wont even bother trying to solo if I dont even know the 1 3 5. I wanted to connect my ears to the instrument even at this most elementary lvl. So I did. I already figured ways of memorizing the notes for each arpeggio throughly on the entire fretboard (stacks of 3 adjacent strings, going through 2 inversions in every possible way, naming and singing the notes etc). Now Im wondering how should I cycle through the arpeggios Ive learnt? As always thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge.
Timothy

Appel

All of me is a good tune for this study, an excellent and very intuitive choice. Because the melody suggests a good way to start, the spaces between phrases are very inviting, and out of this tune, a method can be developed that can be applied to other tunes.

Another thing about this tune that is nice is that it never modulates - at least, I can argue that it never modulates; take Coquette as a contrast, that very definitely modulates to IV major in the first four bars of the B section. Instead, in All of Me, the chords that appear to be outside the tonic can be treated simply as secondary dominants.

Anyway. The first phrase goes, 1 5 3 - then there is space, then the next phrase is 1 2 1 7 #5 3. Or, in the key of C, it goes C G E (space), C D C B G# E. You know what I'm saying - it's a descending I major arpeggio, followed by a descending III major arpeggio.

What that suggests to me is to take the melody and continue the descending arpeggios to fill the spaces. Take the most interesting note or phrase from each section of the melody, maybe change the timing to eighth notes, and fill up the remainder of the barres with descending arpeggios. Just keep going down until you run out of time (maybe add in the 6th on that C major arpeggio, too, and maybe turn around and start coming back up, if you run out of range). Then, when the next phrase starts, jump back up to the important note or beginning of the phrase and begin your descent again, down through whatever arpeggio fits the harmony at that point in the tune.

Does that make sense? An exercise like this does a number of things to open up the tune's harmony, all the while remaining connected to the melody. Hope you can make sense of the idea.

Appel

(gosh but I find the brief time allowed for an edit on this forum kind of hard to work with ... just not what I'm used to, I suppose)

Of course you can change the direction of the arpeggios (maybe start from the original phrase, then jump down to the lowest chord tone you can play and from there, fill up the rest of the space before the next chord change or new phrase with an ascending arpeggio), or mix up diatonic runs with the arpeggios, whatever you want - this is just one idea, something suggested by the melody.

kevingcox

Another exercise that I learned from some great players but have had trouble disciplining myself to do is to play through the arpeggio in some regulated manner (quarter notes, for example) and when the chord changes move to the nearest note of the next arpeggio, whether that be up on the same string, down, or switching strings.

Once that is old hat, try anticipating the change by moving early, or late, or using chromatics, but only after you know what to do.

I find this very hard, I usually end up leaping to "landmark" notes in the next arpeggio and have to really stay focused on the task at hand rather than just blowing all over an arpeggio I already THINK I know.

anthon_74

Hey there,

I suggest 2 things - First, Use the circle of 5ths. Pick an arpeggio shape (the arpeggio shaped like the open "cowboy" chord it resembles), say for example, the E major shaped arpeggio. Play the arpeggio in the position where it spells out a C chord starting at the 8th fret. Practice it that way a few times, and then move it down to the 3rd fret to spell out a G chord, then the 10th fret to spell a D chord, and so on. Repeat with all of your arpeggio shapes, moving about 4 or 5 different keys down the circle of 5ths (go backwards to work on the flat chords).

Then use them as part of what I call Arpeggio play along, which is what Appel suggested. All of me is definitely the best way to go because it covers many harmonic possibilities. Start by picking one shape and playing it over the song. In this case, you will jump all around the fret board to get to each arpeggio spot. do this with the 3 main arpeggio shapes (E, A, and C). Once you're done, do what Dennis Chang calls "voice leading, where you stick to one zone of the fret board, playing only the arpeggios in that zone (for example, between the 1st and 6th fret)

Do that over any song you're working on, HOWEVER, at first focus your energy on ONE song, rather than spreading it out too wide. You will find that getting really good at one song will pay dividens over other songs you work on.

Cheers!
Anthony

Appel

@kevingcox - I've slugged through exercises exactly as you've described, as assigned by supposed music teachers, and my response to them is very close to yours! I don't like exercises like that - they seem half-baked, somehow. And what's more, I've noticed what the players who practice like that tend to sound like, at least, within a relatively short period of time following the study; in time, we all overcome our mind-forg'd manacles, don't we? But for a while, the players who can mechanically get through a tune that way sound ... well, mechanical! I actually think it's a good sign if we find ourselves resisting exercises like that. Of course, they have value - but simply laying out arpeggio after arpeggio goes too far into harmonic abstractions (in my opinion) and gets away from the substance of the tune, which is the harmony. After all, the tune can be reharmonized, can't it, and still be the tune. So why not use the substance of the tune to structure the work - and the substance is the melody!

What's more ... I find exercises like the one you've described are hard to remember, and I need to look at a sheet of paper in order to get through a tune that way. I have to keep track of the chord degrees (ok, V7 chord, 3rd, 5th, b7th, root, 3rd ...) and try to relate that to the key as well (um, ok, V7 chord tones related to the tonic, let's see ... the 3rd of V is the 7th of the key, the 5th of V is 2, b7 is actually 4 ...) and think about the position I'm in, and the fingering, how I have to shift to get all the notes running across the neck (... what was my fingering again, oops! was I going to the I maj or back to ii minor or up to vi minor or ...?) - terrible, so much thinking. Lot of stuff to sort out and remember, off-book - which it has to be, to be useful in anywhere outside of the practice room.

But connecting the arpeggios to the notes of the melody - I find this really pulls it all together, gives me a memorable structure for the exercise, lets the ear come in and help out ... if I know the melody well, I can get through the tune without looking at a sheet of paper - and it's a lot more fun. At least for me.

Jazzaferri

IMO Arps are more a technical exercise like learning the alphabet, not words or phrases. If you wish to speak off the cuff, learn words and phrases. their meaning, and when to use em.

Arps will teach you where the notes are and assist in learning structure and form.

They will not teach you much if anything, about artistry.

anthon_74

Jazzaferri, are you saying practicing arpeggios is a waste of time ? If so, I would have to respectfully disagree, All the beautiful phrases in the world are meaningless if you don't know how to fit them around a chord shape, and therefore transpose them into different keys, and therefore actually put them into your playing. Additionally, if you look at many gypsy jazz licks, the arpeggio they're played around is outlined in the lick, and knowing the arpeggio goes a long way to helping you figure out how to "finger" the lick.

Also I find that arpeggios are great to practice when you're not feeling particularly creative or inspired. Technical exercises can help get the otherwise dormant creative juices flowing if you know what I mean... And if not, they help you with your speed of comprehension when you play them as an etude over the changes of a song.

My $.02

Anthony

Jazzaferri

Not at all. I have and still do practice Arps religiously. What I am saying is not to fall into the trap of thinking of Arps as musical expression. My ears tell me that quite a few get caught in that rut.

Of course using notes of an arp will at times form part of a phrase. They have to as there are only 12 notes plus a few bendy bits and the nature of our harmonic progressions dictates that.

Years ago after playing a great concert an interviewer asked Kenny Werner if he could have any musical wish granted what would it be. "More technique" was his immediate answer. The interviewer was very puzzled by this as his technique appeared pretty great to him.

Kenny explained that the only thing that got in his way of expressing himself at times was reaching for something that he didn't have unconsciously and that lack took him out of his flow state.

What I would say about practicing Arps is to very quickly get away from starting on the tonic. My scale practice is now arp based. So if I am practicing C major scale I might start with the Cmaj7 arp E C G B A G F E then D-7 F D A C B A G F then E-7 and so on up through all 4 note diatonic chords of CMajor. Try doing them in several positions starting on the 6 ,5 4 and 3 strings. All keys all chords.

anthon_74

Yup, I agree. I fall into the trap of starting at the tonic too often for sure. I'm defensive about arpeggios because I had to figure out on my own how to practice them and play them over a songs chord changes. Once I did that, I could finally solo a little bit. Until then, I just had all these books with licks and phases in it that were gathering dust because I couldn't apply anything in them.

Jazzaferri

Hal Galper said something that really resonated with me. He would rather have 20 licks that he could play a hundred different ways than 1,000 licks.

The more I listen to Django the more I recognize that he did that too.