Best key for "after you've gone"

wim

I came back to this tune recently.. Django has 3 version, and each in different key! G, C, and A. The earliest version is horrible, the rhythm chunks along gratingly and it doesn't swing at all. The rome version is probably the best, but honestly none of them are great ..

I'm interested to know what started that huge slow down in the B section of head out? It begins at the ii-minor chord and goes for 8 bars, before resuming at tempo for the final 8 bars. Lots of guys do this in jams, but I don't know where/when it started, and Django didn't ever do that unless I've missed a version. Does anyone know? Or is this going to be another mystery like the django's tiger F7 conspiracy

spatzo

It is slowed down to remember that the original is written half time and played double time. In fact it is not really slowed down but just played half time in that part of the theme. My opinion is that the Rome version is great but I like them all

adrian

Wim Glenn wrote: »

I'm interested to know what started that huge slow down in the B section of head out? It begins at the ii-minor chord and goes for 8 bars, before resuming at tempo for the final 8 bars. Lots of guys do this in jams, but I don't know where/when it started, and Django didn't ever do that unless I've missed a version.

Hmm, good question! I did some quick archeology, and the earliest version I could find with the final-B-section-half-time thing was on Angelo Debarre's "Gypsy Guitars" album from 1989.

Adrian

spatzo

The score is written like this:

[C][Cm][G]...

but it is usually played like that:

[C][./.][Cm][./.][G][./.]...

It is not only played faster (double time) but bars are also doubled


Bessy Smith in 1927 played it as written with the full score, Armstrong in 1929 played it the second way only slowing down at the very end with no further acceleration

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tlHUqFSDD9A

Rome version 1949 is excellent but Django played it marvelously in 1936 with Freddy Taylor as well, Grappelli's "improvised theme" is just great. If there is no swing in it we will not find it elsewhere...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nM6hjt7tR0c in 1936

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-rAz7nnnHqo in 1949

Django always ends fast

The 1934 version is clearly not as good, the recording quality is really poor and it is only a trio with a double bass level very high

Teddy Dupont

Here's the first version which was a privately made demonstration tape so the recording quality and balance is pretty poor. I think Django's solo is fine even today and in the context of August, 1934 it is remarkable. Joseph's straight four rhythm sounds more like he is playing a banjo!!!

wim

Thanks @adrian for your archaeological dig ... I will check out Angelo's version when I get home! I guess my favourite version of this tune is probably still Bireli's, he plays so much cool stuff in the middle I just wish he hadn't ruined it with the super-naff intro and outro thing.

As for Django's ....

1949 version: Django plays a fantastic solo, and Grappelli too - as on all the Rome sessions! But when Django's comping I don't like the way he's repeatedly emphasizing so many accents on the 1 beat. It's lacking his usual finesse. Also, Adrian has ruined all those piano intros for me ...

1936 version: Freddy Taylor isn't a great singer, he doesn't hit the melody notes. If you were trying to figure out the melody from a tune you wouldn't be able to get it from his singing, you have to listen to another player. I'm not saying we can't embellish the melody sometimes but you should stray with "interesting" notes or syncopation, not rob the melody its colour. I first noticed this in Nagasaki - he's almost rapping, even - and now I'm cursed, it started to bug me in his other tunes too. The best thing about this version is that cool 'bhangra beat' sounding thing that Django does in the break (around 1:25).

1934 version: Awful, not even worth criticizing. Although this is mostly the rhythm section fault. It sounds like someone travelled back in time and gave Joseph the loudest Gitane ever made, a 5mm wegen pick, and a brain transplant so he forgot how to play the pompe. You can barely hear Django.

Stringswinger

The common key among professional jazz musicians is B flat. Trad Gypsy jazz guys all play it in G. IMO, a good guitarist should be able to play any tune in all 12 keys. If you can develop your ears to the point where you are using your ears instead of pure muscle memory, it is quite doable.

Teddy Dupont

Wim Glenn wrote: »

It sounds like someone travelled back in time and gave Joseph the loudest Gitane ever made, a 5mm wegen pick, and a brain transplant so he forgot how to play the pompe.

In the early days of the Quintette, the rhythm guitarists generally played a straight four and it was only Django played La Pompe and then not always.

Matteo

Freddy Taylor isn't a great singer, he doesn't hit the melody notes. If you were trying to figure out the melody from a tune you wouldn't be able to get it from his singing, you have to listen to another player. I'm not saying we can't embellish the melody sometimes but you should stray with "interesting" notes or syncopation, not rob the melody its colour.

I have to say that I don't agree. I think he just follows in the footsteps of Louis Armstrong. There's a recording where Armstrong gets through almost the whole song Dinah on just one single note! You would certainly not be able to learn the melody of Dinah from listening to that. But it swings like crazy.

I also think it's a matter of taste. I have on a few occasions used Freddy Taylors versions with the French Hot Quintet as inspiration when singing some jazz songs. And I got good feedback from the musicians too. I suppose they didn't knew that my "improvised" deviations from the written melody where stolen from some old Django recordings and didn't come straight from my heart. I'd say Freddy is a fine singer. :-)

Jazzaferri

It is easy to forget that in the early and mid 30's in Europe, people were still trying to figure out what jazz was. Django got it pretty early but not many others.

Some critics/writers would say that the only non black guys who "GOT" jazz in the late 20's early 30's were Bix Beiderbeck and to an extent Frankie Trombauer.