I need la pompe critique!

moomincode

I've been trying my hand at learning la pompe. I've been using Michael Horowitz's Gypsy Rhythm as well as some of the videos found on youtube, trying to carefully emulate their technique. Since I don't have a teacher to give me direct feedback, I thought you guys could help me out!

Here are my Soundcloud recordings: https://soundcloud.com/user9270992

As you can see, I've isolated between upstroke and downstroke. When I focus on upstroke or down stroke, it sounds good on its own (I think) but when it comes to combining them it doesn't seem to mesh well together.

anthon_74

First question, are you coming to Django in June ? If not, come next year. In terms of the first example, which is the full La pompe, upstroke and down,
I would suggest that your accent beats - 2, and 4, are a tad too strong. Try not to intentionally accent the 2 and the 4, just let it happen on it's own.
Also make the upstroke a bit more subtle. Modern gypsy's practically eliminate the upstroke all together. Overall, I would say think bouncy.

Check out this video of Adrien Holovaty testing a guitar at Caravan guitars. Watch everything he does and try to emulate it.



Also watch a lot of different players do pompe. The guitar review videos on Django books and caravan guitars are great to study because they all do an unaccompanied pompe so you can see and hear it done.

Jazzaferri

Couple of thoughts try pushing through the strings on the first downstroke and whipping across on the second downstroke. Forget the upstroke for now. One you can get the basic pompe down ... Both strokes with balanced tone and chord note duration at speeds up to around 180 then at that point, start adding in a light upstroke as a grace note and in your practice try different emphasis levels.

One exercise I recommend is to break each beat into 16ths and practice holding for 1/16 on 1/3 and a staccato 1/16 on 2/4 then try holding for eighths on both and so on. Some songs seem to need one style some another.

Different lead players demand different styles of pompe and flexibility. The ability to cater to their pathetic Whiney pleadings makes one a more popular rhythm bitch.

It's always more effective to master little amounts and then sew them together rather than taking on too much at one time. It's hard for us humans to be patient but it's actually faster in the long run.

Bones

Not bad!!

What Jazza said, think 'rake' on 1 and 3. Think 'whip' or 'snap' on 2 and 4 (quicker stroke than on 1/3) but with same total amount of volume on all 4 beats. Be able to adjust your dynamics without changing the tone.

On the personal preference level, your choice, but be able to adjust for less upstroke and less ringing if necessary. If you want to use the upstroke try to be able to make it very short and subtle and as close as possible to the 1/3. Also, be able to adjust for less ringing especially on the 2/4. I.e. shorter pulses and more damping with the left hand. For me this is most easily done by simply gripping less hard with the left hand (i.e. easier/faster to damp). Think of it as selecting for percussion versus ringing.

Also, what Jazza said about flexibility. You may need to adjust your style for different soloists depending on their taste/ability since your job is to support them.

moomincode

Appreciate all the responses guys. I'm still fairly new, I've only got a grasp of the chords and not much else. So from what I can gather I have to work on my fretting hand at this point.

When anthon_74 says that modern rhythm takes away the upstroke all together, do the strumming hands still go through the up down motion on the 1 and 3? Does the upstroke still attack the strings, albeit muted? or do they just skip the strings completely?

And if anybody could recommend me a good teacher in the NYC area that has time to teach a complete beginner, I'd appreciate it! I might want to take a few face to face lessons, so that I don't have to stomp out the bad habits/techniques later on.

Bones

Yeah getting lessons from someone who knows early on is a really good idea. Avoid building in bad habits (don't ask me how I know). Go to Django in June???

anthon_74

Yeah dude, if you live in New York, go to Django in june. you probably can still get a spot, definitely during the weekend. It starts next wednesday. No better way to get your pompe down.
And I think it could help if you're playing without the up stroke, to almost imagine your hand still doing it. The best description I've heard for the feel is "Rake Chop". but don't "try" to accent the chop, just let it accent itself.
And there are plenty of teachers in New York i'm sure. I believe Stephan Wremble teachers near there when he's not touring. He's one of the best players in the world, and a good teacher.
Post something on this board looking for a teacher in NYC.

Anthony

Mitch

Hi moomincode,

Well it's not that bad if you're a beginner!
I suggest that you learn only with downstroke until your pompe gets full bodied and steady. The upstroke will comme naturally. Never mute 1 and 3 beats with your left hand.
In your downstroke only soundclip, try to let the chords ring more on your left hand.
I would use the concept of "raking", you must hit all the strings or maybe the 4 or 5 first strings (starting from the low E) on beats 1 and 3 and then all the strings on the second stroke for beats 2 and 4.
Left hand is the key

PapsPier

I know that Alex Simon gives some lessons in NYC, you can find it on Craiglist. You should also attend some live concerts to see actually how it is played live. There are a couple of pages for Gypsy jazz events in nYC on Facebook
When you will know a couple of songs, I would be interested in jamming with you: I play rhythm correctly but I need to practice my soloing skills and am not a big fan of jam sessions... so I would be happy to play with other "beginners" and one way to progress is to play with other guys.

Bones

Yeah what Anthony said is a good point. For now leave out the upstroke and get the tone on 1/3 and 2/4 down. I had YEARS of bad habits (don't make that mistake!!) when I finally got some lessons from Gonzalo and he had me completely damp the 2/4 at first and just get the 1/3, then work on the 2/4 and that really helped me. You need to find the tone that you (and others) like and get that feel automatic in your hands. Another thing that helped me is find good recordings that you like the rhythm tone/feel and play along with it. Slow it down if necessary and try to get it where you sound like them (or at least sound good with them). Gonzalo had me rake thru all the strings (not just the bass strings) on the 1/3 and chop thru all the strings on 2/4. But, again, keep the volume level the same on all beats. Just because the 2/4 gets the accent (percussion-wise) don't make it louder and don't let it ring or it won't be percussive enough. You are the drummer as well as the rhythm guitarist.

Another point, better to err on the side of too much damping than too much ringing IMHO. Taken to the extreme, if I get lost momentarily in the changes (not that that ever happens :-) ) I just fully damp the left and keep the percussion going with the right. That way at least you are still holding the beat and a good soloist/bass is holding down the harmonic structure anyway so if you don't sound out the chord tones for a couple beats it doesn't matter that much anyway. Naturally, it is best to know the changes cold but this is just an example to show that it is better to err on the side of damping versus ringing, and always keep the pulse going.

And of course, have good time. Practice with a click track or metronome.

I hope that helps.

bohemewarbler

I believe Adrien Moignard's la pompe in this short video is one of the best examples of the technique, and it's also beneficial in that he's playing the gypsy jazz anthem Minor Swing as well, so you can easily play along. If he's using an upstroke here, I cannot tell. I don't think he is. There's more than one way to produce la pompe, and in this example he's providing a nice, strait forward, version that won't get in the way of lead players. Visually, you should notice the way his left hand presses and releases on each beat, although he'll sometimes hold down an extra beat when he reaches a new chord. Also notice that movement comes not just from his wrist, but also from his elbow. Audibly, notice that he gets a nice percussive sound on beats 2 and 4 without any dramatic whipping or snapping of the wrist, which I see a lot of players do. This help give an even volume to all beats while maintaining excellent gypsy jazz rhythm production. Not all players use this particular style of la pompe, but it's one of the best, and he's one of the best players out there.