Arpeggios for rest-strokers

Appel

The simple way the pick moves through that typical diminished seventh run got me thinking about what other ways I can structure lines to take advantage of the strengths of rest-stroke picking and lessen some of the difficulties. There is so much to be gained by looking at the way we are picking something and letting it guide us a little in how we are working. One thing I am working on is how a descending scale might be played with a group of four notes on a string, then two notes on a string, then another two notes on a string, then perhaps a four-note group and notes on two notes, then four notes - especially in combination with open strings; like a quick descent in C might go, from A, like this:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
E--F|---|--G|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
X--C|---|--D|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
X---|--A|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D---|--E|--F|---|--G|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
X---|--B|--C|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
E--F|---|--G|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


What that allows is a very strong picking sequence where you can follow the principle of initiating each string with a down-stroke, AND use strict alternate picking, even descending. Really, really powerful - fast, loud, sounds just great.

And of course, there are places all over the neck where diatonic lines can be played in any key, up and down, with two notes on a string - of course, pentatonic runs work great that way, we all know a gazillion of those from our rock'n'roll days, I saw you in that band, in the smoky club with the Strat and the long hair, don't try and deny it, I was totally there and so were you. You and I both know all those licks, it's just these days we change the bass notes!


Anyway, arpeggios. They can be laid out across the neck in just far too many ways; applying the right hand to control the options isn't a terrible thing to do. Let me just offer a couple of runs to try that put two notes on each string and allow a really strong picking sequence. Say, I was practicing this one earlier today:

Em7:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--D|---|--E|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|--D|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|--D|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|



A9 sound, created with a C#m7b5 arpeggio


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--G|---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


Dmaj7


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C#|--D|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|-C#|--D|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-C#|--D|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


OR, if that's too "pedestrian" sounding, the major ninth is an interesting fingering:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-C#|---|---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|-F#|---|---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


(Is George Benson, love every note he ever played or sung, but really, is George Benson not THE most aesthetically SAFE guitar player you have EVER heard? Who is he to be talkin' about pedestrianism? I cannot for the life of me, in the world of great guitar players, what the fixation with George Benson is all about! Joe Pass, I get. Just like Django, we're never going to be done studying Joe. But Benson? And anyway, what's wrong with pedestrianism? Cuts down on the carbon footprint ... good for the heart ... ???)



Funnily enough, laying out the arpeggios with two notes on a string like that, it can be disorienting at first; I was playing these simple drop-3 voicings now and then to ground my ear as I was working through the physical confusion of all the shifting and working out fingerings:

Em7 first inversion, or Em7/G,

:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--D|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--G|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


A9 third inversion, or A9/G ... or C#m7b5, second inversion

:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|-C#|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|--B|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|--E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--G|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


Dmaj7 first inversion, or Dmaj7/F#

:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|-C#|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|--A|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|-F#|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


Anyway, I think these fingerings - and the approach they imply - are great because they are actually very easy to articulate in a strong and powerful way on an acoustic guitar - I can get them just shouting out of the guitar in a way I just cannot with a sweep-picking action. Also, the patterns are very easy to see and remember - and once you get the shifts down, and can quickly co-ordinate the expanding and contracting of the hand, they are quick, colourful brushstrokes that really open up the neck of the guitar.

Another thing to try is to apply a similar thinking to tetrachords (four-note groups; for example, there are two in the C major scale: C-D-E-F is one tetrachord, and G-A-B-C is another).

Very wise, I think, to spend a good bit of time on finding things that are easy to learn, quick to recall and straight-forward in their articulation.

Bones

A slightly different way of Maj 7 arp (D) going up sequence
:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|--8|---|---|---|---|--9|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|--7|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|--5|--6|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|--3|---|---|--4|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|--1|--2|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

Bones

Hmmm, tried copy/paste that diagram but didn't work too well. How do you guys do that so it doesn't get messed up?

thanks

t-bird

Outstanding posts, Appel. Thank you for addressing the question head on and making great sense of it.

Mambo71

Appel, I am truly humbled that you should write such a lengthy reply and be so generous with your wisdom. I found myself nodding in agreement at most everything you wrote. In particular that it is not just about speed but other aspects of articulation. You've taught me that experimentation is the key. I'll put some more time in the shed. Many thanks.

BluesBop Harry

Bones wrote: »

Hmmm, tried copy/paste that diagram but didn't work too well. How do you guys do that so it doesn't get messed up?

thanks

That used to happen to me too
You can use http://hotfrets.com/tab-maker
Copy and paste your TAB in between code brackets.
Select your text (TAB) and then ctrl+o or press the C at the toolbar at the top of the comment box.
You'll get this:

|-------------
|------5-8-5-8
|----5--------
|--5----------
|-------------
|-------------

Appel

@t-bird , @Mambo71 - very much appreciate your kind appreciations. I was inspired to write a little bit by a thoughtful and intelligent question, and also I'm reconsidering a number of things, looking for new things, trying to make stuff work in a way that sounds the best I can make it sound on an acoustic guitar.

I find whatever two-note fingerings I can find that I can reach are particularly helpful and good-sounding for descending runs. The thing is ... I suppose we all need to be able to develop our down-stroke to the point where we can move it around rapidly and cleanly regardless of direction - but I notice a lot of great players tossing off descending runs, diatonic lines and arpeggios, that have no more than two notes per string and function to connect or continue phrases smoothly without breaking momentum. There are all kinds of simple two-note-per-string fingerings that sit across strings 2 & 3, of course, and those can be extended up or down with a shift or a stretch, no problem.

The practice time I give to diatonic and arpeggio fingerings that are dead-simple to pick is only making my rest-strokes stronger and clearer, which helps to reduce any hesitation or uncertainty in the picking hand, and consequently descending lines with an odd number of notes on a string are getting better as well.

And I did not intend to suggest that sweeps be ignored - only that it's hard to make a really bold line with them. That's ok. Not every line should be bold. Anyway, enough out of me, best wishes!

Bones

Thanks BBH, I'll try that. Great thread BTW.

Scoredog

First off Bones, on the B string you should have continued the pattern if you want it to be consistent with this thread with 7-10 on the B string and then 9-10 on the E string...:)

The next statement is not a this is better than that type of thing but Stochelo can play quite forcibly using rest stroke arpeggios to the point you cannot tell if they are alternate or rest strokes until you watch his left hand fingering and realize that is a different way of doing it from my traditional jazz roots. Also once you start forcing the rest stroke into the arpeggio you realize it can sound smoother yet more powerful because of the weight of the stroke.

I still use diminish runs where there are minor thirds on the same string, it is visually easy to see and struggle a bit visually the minor thirds across 2 strings to create the diminished run but that is because of years of doing it. In the end I don't want to look at the fretboard much anyway and the 2 string for minor 3rd approach gives me a bit more flexibility for different articulations (try sliding into any of the notes) and weighting.

Appel

@Scoredog , @Bones - yes I have been hoping that Bones would explain the idea behind that fingering - what did you have in mind there?

And, Scoredog - if I follow you - starting with this fingering for reference:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-Db|---|---|Fbb|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|-Bb|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|-Db|---|---|Fbb|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|--G|---|---|-Bb|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|-Db|---|---|Fbb|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|--G|---|---|-Bb|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


I'll replace the note names with "{d}" for a down-stroke (which we will understand to be a rest-stroke, always) and {u} for an up-stroke, we can articulate that line like this:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


... but we can also articulate it like this:


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{u}|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|{d}|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|{d}|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


... point being, that the pick can move through these notes ...


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


... in one motion, coming to rest on the fourth string, then lifted in preparation for playing the next two notes, which are again played in one stroke ...


:..................5.......7.......9..........12
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|{d}|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
N---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|


... and so on, through the fingering. I think that is what you are suggesting - yes?

That approach works great for a lot of fingerings, it sounds really great. And it can be adapted to long runs structured from tetrachords ... I have to decide whether the minimal, even negligible contribution would be worth the work of tapping it all out with my clumsy and awkward way of doing that.

But anyway ... it is not hard to achieve very powerful projection and a rich, sweet tone with a sweeping stroke when that sweeping motion is limited to two or three strings - and where there is not too much, if any, shifting or stretching in the left hand. But when "Frank Gambale" and the like are brought up, "sweeping" starts to mean something quite different, and it can be forgotten that those players play very short-scale guitars that are thin across the body, wear their guitars up fairly high, set the action very, very low with extremely light strings, and use a lot of compression and other electronic gadgetry to even out their sound. But on an acoustic guitar, even a very good one? To strive for a good tone with that kind of across-the-neck sweeping might even be injurious.