Lead players...monologue or dialogue

Jazzaferri · July 2015

An afterthought. When I was maybe 8 my best friends dad who was one of Vancouvers top swing jazz guitar players told me that good (however he defined that) improvising musicians had 3 stages in their career.

..the first ..trying to put as many notes as they could into a piece..

.the second...becoming aware that there is an alternative.....

the third...trying to take as many notes as they can out of a piece and still be meaningful.

Hemert · July 2015

I state in the video that the right style of rhythm is the one that supports the soloist. I meant that quite literally, if they want a conversation then that would be most supportive.

If that is an unknown factor however, play safe and play the cleanest, most dry, softest rhythm you possibly can!

Chiefbigeasy · July 2015

Simply put, as I heard one jazz player say, "you can't be stepping on the soloist's shoes: you got to shine his shoes."

If I can disagree slightly with a previous post here, it may not be possible to make the soloist better with a good rhythm player, but from the listeners' point of view, the soloist will seem to be better with a good accompanist versus a bad one.

Finally, I absolutely do believe that dialogue is essential between soloist and accompanist, at least to reach higher levels of music. It takes, however, experience and ability to be able to play and listen simultaneously.

And you can find it in unusual places. There is a great New Orleans drummer named Johnny Vidacovich who absolutely listens carefully to any soloist; his drumming is assuredly melodic whether he's accompanying modern or New Orleans traditional jazz. Or listen to McCoy Tyner's drummer, Al Foster. Tyner has an affinity for percussion in his own playing, and you can tell he recruited a great drummer who listens and responds.

When I look back on my own playing over the years in everything from folk groups, blues bands, duos and trios of all sorts, the best music happened when everyone played and listened carefully. Then, there was no question that the soloist would be supported, but the rest of the band was always actively and intently engaged in the conversation and the production of the final product: beautiful music.

I would argue then, that playing and listening simultaneously is essential in all forms of music, not only jazz or gypsy jazz. This practice is the basis of the dialogue between players in a duo to members in the band.

Jazzaferri · July 2015

I am really enjoying this discussion and I think it will be very useful and thought provoking for many. Thanks everybody to all for your insights. Keep em coming.

manushe · July 2015

this is a great thread! I agree with everything that has been said. the whole point is to make beautiful music. to make this music everyone needs to be on the same page.

steven_eire · July 2015

Jazzaferri wrote: »

The job is to make the tune sound good. Not really possible to make a soloist sound good. Either they will play something that works or not. When comping, the job is to add to the overall. If a soloist can't stay in the groove and play well on his own, whatever the comping section is doing, the soloist is still in training mode.

I disagree, here is a video of arguably the greatest living GJ musician playing with a rhythm that IMO isn't great. Even a player of Fapy's quality can't make this sound good.

bohemewarbler · July 2015

That clip of Fapy Lafertin with the guy on rhythm should probably be destroyed! Fapy shows that he is a true gentleman for not just walking away. He could have made up some excuse, I'm sure. I'm guessing the guy's wife was videotaping.

One of my favorite examples of rhythm and solo trade-offs is this recording of Swing for Ninine that is on Portait of Jimmy Rosenberg album. I don't have the physical album jacket, but I believe it is Romane who is trading solo and rhythm playing with Jimmy Rosenberg. Talk about dialogue! These two players had to have some discussion before pulling this one off. In their rhythm playing, they use every embellishment that has ever been invented, inventing some themsevles here, yet they never get in each other's way. In this instance, it's an equal exchange between rhythm and solo playing. I advise to listen with headphones to get the full effect of their trade-offs.