What causes tailpiece rattling ?

Bones

Hey Al, I just suggested hot melt since it would be something that a non-luthier might have easily available and since it is thick and flexible figured a tiny bit in the groove on the edges of the insert would fix his problem. Unlikely that a non-luthier would have hot hyde glue or epoxy. Cyano (super glue) might be in their cabinet and may work but maybe a bit brittle. Seems like he was looking for something with more damping properties?

Craig Bumgarner

I did the little test of tailpieces I was talking about. Short version is NO difference between three tailpieces and variations of mass via the insert and magnets. Props to Al Watsky :-)

Longer version: Tested three tailpieces, a 57gr Miller w/ removable insert, a 58 gram brass tailpiece w/o insert and a 32gr chrome plated steel TP also w/o insert. They all seem like high quality tailpieces. I tried all three, no difference. The Miller insert was easy to pull out without removing the TP from the guitar or unstringing it, 30 seconds, so tried it off & on several times, no difference. I added up to 30gr to the steel one with magnets, again no difference.

The moral of the story is if the insert is rattling, forget the goop, just throw it away :-)

Jazzaferri

Going from a metal tailpiece to a wood tailpiece (a la Benedetto) makes a noticeable difference to the tone of an Archtop.

Look forward to your test results @Craig Bumgarner

crookedpinky

Interesting. John Le Voi installs wooden tailpieces on some of gypsy guitars but is adamant that it does not produce a different sound or tone. Maybe the different construction of an archtop makes it more responsive to the type of tailpiece.

Jazzaferri

Bob Benedetto talks about the differences in his book and probably the video....just can't remember

Al Watsky

There is a noticeable sound difference in TP materials on violins , I've experienced it . Ebony , RW , Box wood, synthetics, aluminum and etc. Most of the differences are only really audible to the player. Which is fine and all but really finally isn't very important. The length of the tail piece and its rigidity , mass and other factors are more important than the materials. Its perceivable but not exactly important. Wooden tailpieces for these GJ guitars is a dead end. The wooden fittings are bulky and often awkward , the tail gut types for guitar are a joke . If you want to emulate a violin esthetic fine but thats not the way forward. The type used on Favino's with no insert is the best of its type I have seen. Nothing to rattle , simple , durable, done.
The wooden insert is an esthetic flourish. Ken Parker arch tops have an interesting solution to the problem which could be executed on a new GJ build. Check that out.

Bones

Yeah never understood the gut tailpieces on guitar. My purely theoretical idea was that you want the tailpiece to be a stiff as possible. A pick doesn't put very much energy into a string (esp. compared to a violin bow) so any energy lost vibrating anything but the string and the bridge/top is a waste of energy. But who knows. Interesting question.

Craig Bumgarner

It occurs the insert does serve to stiffen the tailpiece. One can easily bend the brass surrounding it, but no way is that ebony going to bend. The pull of the strings on the posts is off center so to speak and if not stiff enough, the tail piece will curl down at the post end and up in the middle. The ebony must help resist some of that, as do the rolled down edges and the raised, pressed decorations. The all metal Favino tailpiece Al refers to has a pressed shape that resembles the insert and stiffens the plate.

papajoe

Justgot my first gypsy jazz guitar. I was very excited to get it. I had been practicing my comping on a Taylor - not quite right. But it was better than doing it on my Les Paul. I took it out of the box, unwrapped it, tuned it up and hit an Am6. There was this unholy rattle. Is this how gypsy jazz guitars sounded? It was intermittent so I couldn't trace it. Was it the frets? The strings? It wasn't until I accidentally hit the edge of the guitar with my phone when I wasn't playing it that I heard the rattle. It was coming from the tailpiece. I jiggered around the ebony inlay and it no longer rattled. That was the problem. Then I saw this post in the forum and I realized it wasn't an unusual problem. Now I know to come here first before I have any other issues. Thanks for all your wisdom here. It really helps an aspiring Djanonaut like me

anthon_74

Thanks for the advice. I determined that the insert was indeed rattling against the brass so I glued it with elders glue. It worked immediately, and we'll see how it holds up.