Help finding "danceable" gypsy swing songs

Ian Stenlund

Hello, first I'll say this is my first post. I've been here to read through posts and found the forum very helpful! Thanks for having me.

Now, my hot club is relatively new and we have young players. No problem having fun jamming and going through the song books. But we've come to a crossroads where we are playing more gigs with swing dancers in the audience, and we've realized that we play most of our songs at a Hot tempo, and it tires them out! So we've been practicing these tunes at a lower BPM to satisfy this particular crowd.

Dancers tell me a good night of dancing will have songs in a 130-180bpm range.

What I've found (as the rhythm player) is that anything below 200 seems so slow! I can play at that the lower tempos, but the song seems to lose some of it's impact, and starts to sound more like a ballad than a swing dance song.

For example, take what all Django fans know, Minor Swing:
I tap that out at about 195, which fast for a dancer, but to my ear it sounds like a mid-tempo swinger. Then take something like Dark Eyes which can be upward of 300bpm! Sounds fun to me but I'm not a dancer lol!

So, my inquiry to this forum is: Can you post some examples (youtube or streaming) of gypsy jazz songs that are in the 130-180bpm range, but don't feel like a drag?

Also, any advice on rhythm technique that will help low tempo songs sound nice and peppy, so they have that bounce to them that makes you want to dance?

Thanks!
Ian

Russell Letson

Can't say much on the metronome-setting front, but my internal sense says that a swing-dance tune is going to have a strong 4 feel (as distinct from, say, a lot of western-swing material that feels like two-step). I'd say just listen to lots of recordings of standards from 1930-45 or so and set your internal metronome there.

I grew up on that era's dance music, which may be why a lot of gypsy-jazz jamming sounds hyperkinetic to me. "Undecided," for example, is often taken way too fast for dancing--players follow the first half of the Hot Club recording instead of the tempo that Beryl Davis takes for the vocal*. Another physiological signal for me is whether a tune is singable at its home tempo--"Undecided" has an upper limit imposed by its near-patter-song bridge lyric. If you can't sing that section, you're playing way too fast for dancing.

Found an interesting page of advice about playing for dancers:

http://dancing.org/music.guidelines.html

And my own quick-and-dirty anthology of examples:

Here's the Delta Rhythm Boys doing "Undecided" at a pretty good clip:



And for reference, here's composer Charlie Shavers:



And a more laid-back but still swing-dancey version from Shavers:



Here's "Don't Get Around Much Any More" at what feels to me like a mid-foxtrot tempo:



And "Take the 'A' Train" at a nice swing-dance tempo:




*BTW, I ran across an Ella Fitzgerald-Chick Webb "Undecided" arrangement that has the same fast/slow layout as the Beryl/QHCF recording.



And then I found a Dandridge Sisters recording (possibly made in the UK in '39) with the same tempo.



Who was listening to whom?

Jazzaferri

If you play some of the faster numbers with a cut time feel you will be right on the mark. For example Swing dancers love our version of undecided. My rythym is about 300 bpm but the dance feel is 150. Or alternatively one can play it at 150 with the rhythm section in double time feel

Ian Stenlund

Jazzaferri wrote: »

If you play some of the faster numbers with a cut time feel you will be right on the mark. For example Swing dancers love our version of undecided. My rythym is about 300 bpm but the dance feel is 150. Or alternatively one can play it at 150 with the rhythm section in double time feel

Hi Jazzaferri. thanks for the reply. Do you have an audio example of this?

Ian Stenlund

Russell Letson wrote: »

I grew up on that era's dance music, which may be why a lot of gypsy-jazz jamming sounds hyperkinetic to me.

Thank you for sharing these tunes. I think the laid back Shavers version is the closest to the feel I'd like to emulate for the swing dance songs that are in a conventional tempo. It's about 140bpm but still has a bouncy feel to it.

And good call on A Train, I was just playing that tune gypsy style. A really nice high-mid tempo swing feel.

That Ella version is great! Very hot on tempo.

Thanks again Russel, will be working on it.

renzok

Ian Stenlund

Perfect renzok thanks

renzok

glad you like it!

Jazzaferri

Currently touring around New Zealand and band website won't be up til I get back. but to give you an idea. Pick a song you want to do for swing dance. Have the bass player play his bass lines at the dance tempo.

Have the rhythm player play his pompe with the longer sounding downstroke as the downbeat and the crisp percussive second downstroke as the upbeat.

If you are into notation, think of the rhythm being played as eighth notes.

If ya wanna be really hip, play the second and fourth downbeat strokes louder than the first and third.

Russell Letson

"Cherokee" offers an interesting example of what happens to a dance tune when it becomes a jazz standard. Composer Ray Noble's original recording is at what I'd call a quick foxtrot tempo that transitions to a swing-dance feel in the second half:



The early Charlie Barnet recording (arranged by Billy May) stays in that borderline-tempo--that is, I can see either swing or quick-foxtrotters managing it, though again the arrangement pushes toward swing toward the end.



Eventually it became a blowing/cutting-session standard, set at tempos no social dancer could navigate, as in this 1955 Clifford Brown-led version:



Or Freddie Hubbard:



And note Benny Green's solo at the start of part 2 of the Hubbard performance:



It's an old musician joke--a guy shows up at a jam with his sax and wants to sit in. The leader says, "You know 'Cherokee'? OK, then, in C-sharp, onetwoonetwothreefour!" As fast as he can say it.

bbwood_98

Two comments on this - play any tune you's know at that tempo (100-150bpm quarter notes) including some things normally played as ballads at the slow end - swinging Nuages is super fun! and uptempo things (there will never be another you, Cherokee) at the upper end. Also you can change the key. This creates two situations; one, the tune is fully fresh for both you and the dancers, and all your skills as a musician get a nice workout!