Downstrokes on ascending arps.

GerBear

Hey, this has been asked a thousand times I'm sure, but here it is...
I'm new to the style, and I'm LOVING IT! -I think I've fallen in love. But I have one daunting question... how can people like Yogui Lofler (who plays at blindingly fast speeds, as you probably know) use all downstrokes on a descending arpegio? I know the tone and timing sound better, but isn't it physically impossible to play a descending arppegio with downstrokes at the same speed as with an upstoke sweep or alternate picking? Again, I agree that it's about tone and timing and authority; I guess I just can't believe that all those gypsy rippers play that fast using this technique.


Thank You For Your Support!

Garrett

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Jack

Hi Garrett,

This is almost always the big question for people new to the style...and it CAN be done. It just takes dedication and a lot of time. Keep in mind too that not every note is necessarily a downstroke-it's mostly when you're changing strings. If you've got two notes on the same string you'll most likely be using alternate picking for that. Keep at it!

Best,
Jack.

GerBear

Definitely, I'm going to keep working at it, but I still think I have to SEE it to believe it. I just don't know how it's possible to play a one-note-per-string descending arp. with all down strokes WITH SPEED (as fast as a swept ascending one-note-per-string arp.)

joef

Where are you hearing these incredibly fast one-note per string downward arpeggios all played with downstrokes ?
I'd like to hear them too :-)

thanks
Joe

Kcox

Joef,

How about the B section to Montagne St. Genevieve. That's one I've been working on for, oh, 2 years now.

Kevin

Bachelorno2

Man, I've been working on that one for a while too! :x

MichaelHorowitz

GerBear wrote:

Hey, this has been asked a thousand times I'm sure, but here it is...
I'm new to the style, and I'm LOVING IT! -I think I've fallen in love. But I have one daunting question... how can people like Yogui Lofler (who plays at blindingly fast speeds, as you probably know) use all downstrokes on a descending arpegio? I know the tone and timing sound better, but isn't it physically impossible to play a descending arppegio with downstrokes at the same speed as with an upstoke sweep or alternate picking? Again, I agree that it's about tone and timing and authority; I guess I just can't believe that all those gypsy rippers play that fast using this technique.

There are a couple reasons why the downstroke technique works:

1) They're not just downstrokes, but rest strokes. The rest stroke gives you increased sense of placement and accuracy that you don't get with free stroke picking.

2) Many Gypsy phrases are fingered horizontally rather then vertically, which reduces the number of downstrokes on string changes.

Believe me, pretty much all the best gypsy players are using this technique. It's in fact, a very, very old technique that goes back to the arabic oud. It is used on every conceivable plectrum instrument around the world (i.e., mandolin, bouzouki, tres, bandola, banjo, etc.).

All you have to do is watch some the videos in the video archive...they're all doing it.

I like this one: http://www.djangobooks.com/archives/200 ... tml#000539


Good luck!

'm

SwingOpi

Michael Horowitz wrote:

2) Many Gypsy phrases are fingered horizontally rather then vertically, which reduces the number of downstrokes on string changes.

Tach,

after I read this sentence it all came to my mind. I knew the difference between vertically and horizontally arps before, but it´s so logically, less stings less downstrokes. I´m so glad, Micheal, that you posted that.
That is a realization on which I would have probably never come.

SwingOpi

GerBear

Thanks for all your help, it's so wonderful being able to ask all of my questions to people with some know-how! I just wanted to say that I hope I don't come off as an "alternate-picking Nazi"... I actually have been LOVING the rest stroke technique! (I've been locking myself in my room for hours and hours the last couple days, simply realizing what a revelation it is!) ...So I completely agree with you that its benefits far outweigh its difficulties.
But I still have a question... you know in that Berili Lagrene clip (sent in Mr. Horowitz' reply) how he does a couple really fast ascending arps. in short bursts, almost just like strumming the chord? Well, what if he wanted to do that as a descending arp.? Do you know what I mean? It just wouldn't work without an upward sweep. I'm sorry to be beating this topic to death, but I'm just really interested. I keep bumping up against it whenever I try to play something like a "C-shaped" arpeggio the way I'm used to playing them, which is... swept downward from 5th string to 1st (intervals 1-3-5-1-3) - a hammer on pulloff on the high E string - and then an upward sweep from string 2 to 5, or root to root. (Sorry, I would've displayed some TAB if I knew how) Well, I hope I've made sense.

MichaelHorowitz

GerBear wrote:

But I still have a question... you know in that Berili Lagrene clip (sent in Mr. Horowitz' reply) how he does a couple really fast ascending arps. in short bursts, almost just like strumming the chord? Well, what if he wanted to do that as a descending arp.?

Contemporary players occasionally use backwards sweeps, but it's not part of the traditional style. I advise students to avoid doing that for a while. Otherwise you'll never learn how to do downward arpeggios with down strokes.

Good luck!

'm

GerBear

Hey Michael,
Thank you so much for clarifying! So... the standard method for upward arpeggios is dowward reststrokes, and after I've u]thoroughly[/u] incorporated that into my playing, then I can occasional throw in an upward sweep if I really need to

Thanks