advice on old archtop guitars?

Romain Vuillemin

Hello there,
i know that the forum is more about gypsy guitars but is there a pro of vintage epiphone/stromberg/gibson archtop here?

i've got an old L5 gibson 16inches from 34, great guitar, but i'm looking for something with bigger body to get a different "voice". I've tryed a G1 stromberg that was great but too expensive, a L5C from 67 that was pretty good ("open" voice, that's what i like, especially when we already have gypsy jazz guitars at home) but a bit expensive and i'd like to know if there is an expert among you on Gibson L5 : i'm thinking that if i want it with GREAT acoustic tone, i might want more one from 30's to 50's cause i guess they didn't do as many acoustic after the 50s and might have lost a bit of maestry, but tell me if i'm wrong.

I might also consider a vintage emperor from Epi.

Please give me your thoughts on these guitars, and if someone has one for sale they can contact me !

Here is mine in action !! https://www.facebook.com/rvuillemin/videos/10153942617111189/?l=7349710674982664580

Thanks in advance for the help

Romain

Russell Letson

I confess that your L5 sounds pretty much optimal to me--and I currently have four archtops, including a '46 Epi Broadway and a modern handbuilt. I sold off a '45 L7 that was very nice but lacking the bark and bottom of your guitar. I've played quite a few very good old and new archtops over the last couple decades, and few sounded as good as yours. (One was an older Emperor, though. On the other hand, I've often found L5s and Super 400s disappointing. But that's just me.)

Jazzaferri

Have you thought about an early large body Benedetto. He built a few that are 19 at the lower bout. I hate to think what they sell for but if you want a different voice they certainly have that.

Buco

That's a gorgeous sounding guitar.
And with positively huge sonority.
Only thing I can say is Romain love that guitar and never let it go!

Bones

Speaking in 'general' (there are always exceptional guitars) acoustic archtops make great rhythm guitars but usually not so good for single note stuff in my experience. I have not played a ton of archtops but the one's I've played don't generally have the volume, top end, and cutting power of a good selmac style guitar for acoustic leads. Obviously, amplification changes the whole game but still if a guitar is weak on the top end and strong on the low end and you turn up the gain enough for the top end to cut thru you will likely have feedback problems on the low end.

Conversely, a good archtop rhythm guitar is a beautiful thing. I bet that L5 has a nice thump to it.

Jazzaferri

The Big Benedetto is a most incredible sounding acoustic guitar. The one he built for the show is blue. Probably north of 50k now if it came up for sale but I think it's now a museum piece, which is a shame in a way.

MarkA

The Benedetto blue guitar that was one of a group commissioned by Scott Chinery? That is an amazing group of guitars.

Russell Letson

Tastes vary, as do playing environments and guitar voices. Nevertheless, I'm not sure that the archtop acoustic compares all that badly to the Selmer-derived as a lead instrument. Note the following:

Marty Grosz punching the daylights out of his old Gibson (in a five-piece band with two horns; note Marty's solo at 4:39):



Paul Mehling demoing an inexpensive Loar:



Comparison of the voices of four archtop acoustics of varying designs and ages:



A brief comparison of an Eastman roundhole and a '35 Gibson L12 (both strung rather light and played without a pick):



Rob Bourassa playing a '38 L7 (restored by Gary Zimnicki)--too much "clank" in its voice for my taste, but it would cut quite well in a band, and not just in the Freddy-Green slice of the bandwidth:

klaatu

Definitely check out vintage Epiphones. IMHO they are at least as good as comparable Gibsons. The Emperor is HUGE (18.5" lower bout), almost as big as the Stromberg. 1936 and later Triumphs, Broadways, and Deluxes (in ascending order of price) can all be found in 17". They are all the same construction, the more expensive models come with better woods and fancier appointments. I love my '46 Triumph.

Bones

Yeah I love that fat mid/low rangey sound of an archtop. Nothing better for chordal work IMHO. If I had to pick only one instrument for rhythm it would definitely be a good archtop. That is THE classic acoustic rhythm guitar sound of early jazz.

Not saying that one couldn't find a satisfactory archtop for single note stuff it's just that in general (in my limited experience) they don't have the top end cutting power of a selmac. Heck, if they did I bet Django would have been playing one. Generally speaking, much easier to find a selmac with loud, cutting highs than an archtop.

Plus to drive that stiff top you need fatter strings which are harder to play fast lines.

But please, don't get me wrong, I LOVE archtops. I've built about a dozen or so myself and will probably build some more if I ever get back out in the shop.

Marty Grosz has been one of my favorites ever since I got into 'classic' jazz years ago. His Gibson (not sure if it has always been the same instrument) has that classic rhythm thump that hits you right in the chest. Note that he plays rhythm and chord solo style. Not much single note soloing. His guitar is perfect for that.

Romain Vuillemin

Russell Letson wrote: »

I confess that your L5 sounds pretty much optimal to me--and I currently have four archtops, including a '46 Epi Broadway and a modern handbuilt. I sold off a '45 L7 that was very nice but lacking the bark and bottom of your guitar. I've played quite a few very good old and new archtops over the last couple decades, and few sounded as good as yours. (One was an older Emperor, though. On the other hand, I've often found L5s and Super 400s disappointing. But that's just me.)

Yes indeed, emperor are more "flattering" for what i'm looking for, than Super 400